Happy Newyear

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Happy Newyear

Postby Tiberius Dionysius Draco on Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:44 pm

Salvete Romani,

I wish all members a Happy Newyear and a good health, let's hope this year will be a good one for SVR as well.

Time to use the wine and balloon smilies again: :party: :wine:

Valete!
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:56 am

:D And a Happy New Year to you as well, Tiberi :mrgreen:
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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:12 pm

Happy new year to all and the best of wishes for everyone for 2006.
I hope everyone survived new years eve?

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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:50 pm

I crawled into bed at 7am, but here I am among the living again.

Best wishes to everyone.

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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:43 pm

Hi Draco, nice to see you among the living again. :D
I crawled into bed around 3 o' clock. Didn't get enough sleep the night before which ruined me evening. Did have fun though.

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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:57 pm

Happy new year, everyone !
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Utque Novus Lunaris Annus sit Omnibus Bonus

Postby Valerius Claudius Iohanes on Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:53 pm

Salvete omnes -

In my home we celebrate the Lunar New Year more than the occidental one, which allows me, now, in mid-February, to wish everyone the best for the annus lunaris, qui est modo Sinense astrologico Canis Annus, the Year of the Dog.
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Felices something

Postby Aldus Marius on Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Avete comites,

I'm holding out for the new Year of the City...which, by various estimates, either began on dies Kalendis Ianuariis...or will do so on 1 March or 21 April. Take your pick--I've taken mine! >({|:-D

In amicitia,
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Whoop--There it is!!

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:50 am

Salvete omnes...

...and there it is!!

AUC 2759...bene, yesterday actually, but somebody had to say it.

Felices dies natalis, Mater...AVE ROMA!! >({|:-)
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:29 am

Saluete Aule Mari et Romani omnes


er, isn't natilis Urbis a couple weeks away, die XI ante Kalenas Maias? SVR was founded by the Gregorian calendar, on 1 May, but Mater Roma, by Julian date at the very least, uhm, which would make Julian 21 Aprile about 4 May by the Gregorian date. Ah, and it would also be dies natalis sacrissimae Numae Pompilii ! And also Cerealia, the dies natalis of the Temple of Ceres, Liber and Libera on Mt Aventinus as well as the dedication day of my own hortus Cereri falls on the day after our celebration for SVR, so much to celebrate, in a couple weeks from now :lol:

Valete optime et vadete in pace Deorum
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Postby Q Valerius on Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:30 pm

Horatius Piscinus wrote:er, isn't natilis Urbis a couple weeks away, die XI ante Kalenas Maias?

Was it eleven days before the Kalends of May? Either way, it's around this day. The Kalends of May = May 1st. So how would it be weeks away?
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:31 am

Salve Quinte Scerio

"Eleven days before the kalends" because the Romans counted inclusively - 21 April and 1 May, and all the days in between. About two weeks away from the Gregorian 21 April as the Julian date is presently 13 days behind the Gregorian date, or fourteen days if you wish to count inclusively. A date given as a. d. XI Kal. Mai AUC MMDCCLIX, as we sometimes use in SVR, should properly be regarded as a Julian date (although not in SVR as some can't seem to grasp Julian dates), so the dies natalis Urbis, this year, by the Gregorian calendar would fall on 4 May. For the fanatically traditionalists, today, 26 April Gregorian, is 13 April Julian, or Idibus Aprilis AUC, uhm, and which year it is depends on whether you follow Varro, as I tend to prefer, or else Livy, so give or take a couple years, MMDCCLVII or MMDCCLIX.

Vale bene
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Postby Q Valerius on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:33 am

Oh gotcha. I had forgotten about the Julian calendar v. Gregorian calendar. But is there a reason to not go with the Gregorian calendar now? I mean, isn't it merely traditional now, since I wholeheartedly doubt that Romulus, if even he existed, founded the city on May 4 in 753 BCE.

You say to-may-to, I say tah-mah-tah.
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:46 am

Salve Scerio

Well tradition had the Founding on 21 April, but it wasn't really by the Julian calendar any more than by the Gregorian. The Roman civil calendar, prior to Julius Caesar, was a sidereal calendar. That would have been the civil calendar introduced in 304 BCE. Varro's rustic calendar was a sidereal calendar, beginning on 13 Sept, - the dies natalis of the Capitolium, the ceremony of hammering in the nail to mark each New Year, - and the agricultural calendars of Virgil's Geargic I and Pliny's Historia Naturalis Bk XVIII were likewise sidereal calendars. Due to the precession of the equinoxes you would have to make an adjustment to align a Gregorian date to what would have been the celestial event that the Romans observed. Something like the star risings that Ovid records in his Fasti on a particular date would no longer be true for a Gregorian date (even if they had been using a Gregorian calendar) and his dates for particular star rising also wouldn't match up with today's Julian calendar (which is what Ovid was using). It wouldn't take much work to figure out the needed adjustments. You just need to check the celestial events recorded by Ovid and Pliny for certain Roman dates, then find when those same celestial events occur today. For instance, the Robigalia was celebrated when the star Sirius was seen to set just after sunset (Yes, Ovid says it was rising in April but he was wrong - poetic license I guess). Other festivals as well were set according to the observed rising or setting of certain stars, and btw the sidereal year is not the same as a solar year so you would have to use observation (or a computer program) to find out what date today a particular celestial event occurs.

A reason to not go with Catholicism's Gregorian calendar for Roman religious festivals? You might ask the same of the Eastern Orthodox Christians or the Jews or the Muslims or the Hindus or the Buddhists. The "tradition" of using a Gregorian calendar has nothing to do with a religio Romana.

Vale optime
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Postby Q Valerius on Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:34 am

One thing to remember about the stars is that they are not fixed. Where Sirius was at in the sky 2000 years ago is not the same place that it is today. The universe is expanding, so not only would you figure out where it is now, but then calculate where it was then also. That's a little bit of math that I personally find useless when celebrating Roman festivals, especially since it's all arbitrary anyway.

optuma,

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Mon May 01, 2006 5:52 am

Salve

Well, no I do not find it arbitrary at all. The old calendar followed the seasons as signalled by the stars, which was needed back then when people still worked with Nature. We are a more urban society today, one that has disconnected people from Nature, and so I find that making an effort to place our religious celebrations back in sync with Nature to be a valuable exercise.

Yes, the stars are not now where they were two thousand years ago. It is not simply a matter of the colar points having shifted back along the zodiac. That effect results from a wobble in the earth's rotation, at the same time that the tilt of the earth is less than it was before. Something like Alnitah, in Orion's Belt, today culminates at 58.0 degrees, where it was at 44.9 degrees some 4500 years ago. Appearing higher in the sky today, it is going to be observed rising earlier in the relative year. And the relative positions between the stars are now different too. Sirius IIRC rises lower and is more elongated from its earlier position, so instead of four days difference as with the equinoxes it works out around 10 days? difference? So you do have to obseve when the appropriate star rising occurs - it is not a simple adjustment of just shifting one calendar against the other.

The other thing, of course, is that the pontifical calendar was once based on the lunar cycle, which differed from the civil or rustic calendars. It is a little easier to work out the adjustments, but you have to do it every year. this year, it just happens, the lunar cycle is closer to the Gregorian than with the Julian calendar, but the lunar cycle increasingly slips as we progress through the year. In January 2006 the Full Moon fell on the 14th, so only about a half of day off from the Ides of January. Here we are at the first of May (Gregorian), four days after the New Moon, with the Full Moon of May two days off from the Ides. And by December, the Full Moon arriving on the 4th will be nine days off from the Ides.

But then why do we have a religious calendar? Why do we celebrate certain days as festivals? You can make it arbitrary I suppose, but that was not the original intention, and I think you lose some of the meaning of celebrating the Ides by doing it on an arbitrary date rather than by coinciding your celebration with the celestial event of a Full Moon.

A BIG BTW - 1 May marks the anniversary of the Founding of our Societas


::bows down:: FELICES NATALIS SVR ::bows down::

:party:

>({|:-) Vale optime et vade in pace Deorum >({|:-)
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LUNAR NEW YEAR'S GREETINGS

Postby Valerius Claudius Iohanes on Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:40 pm

Salvete atque Bonum Habete Novum Annum, Sodales Omnes. Quoniam semper lunarem annum sicut anniversarium proximum et meae familiari et cordi meo habeo, hanc salutationem vobis mitto.

Be ye hale and Have a Good New Year, sodales. Since I always hold the Lunar Year as the new year's celebration nearest my family and my own heart, I send you all this greeting.

:D :wine: :D
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