Translation: I love you

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Translation: I love you

Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:09 pm

Avete Amici,

I wonder if you say in Latin "te amo" or "amo te" for "I love you". Who could confirm which one is the correct one? :roll:

I always thought it should be "te amo" because I learned that the verb is usually at the end of a sentence or at the end of a part of a sentence. But when I saw recently a documentary of the late Pope John Paul II. about his first visit to Germany people where holding up posters which said "amo te" and he said "I hope you know more Latin than just that".

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Postby Q Valerius on Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:48 am

technically it's either way, but more often than not the verb is at the end of the sentence and the normal way for saying I love you is te amo (just like it is in Spanish and Italian (ti amo).
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:17 am

Salue Aelia

Whenever my wife and I write notes to one another, we always begin and end with Te amo semper.

Di Deaeque te bene ament
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"Te amo"

Postby Marius on Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:15 am

Avete,

One nifty feature of all the Latin-based languages is that, since the word endings do so much of the work, word order doesn't matter very much. (I discuss this in some detail, with an example, in my essay "Latin Alive!", which resides [iirc] among the Contributions to this very Collegium.)

For any expression, pick your words; make sure you've got them declined (nouns/adjectives) or conjugated (verbs) properly...then merely arrange them in the order that sounds or seems best to you. >({|:-)

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Re: "Te amo"

Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:03 pm

Salve Mari,

MariPere' wrote:I discuss this in some detail, with an example, in my essay "Latin Alive!", which resides [iirc] among the Contributions to this very Collegium.)


Very interesting indeed. I wished the teachers back at high school were teaching us Latin like that. Maybe that was a reason why I hated it at school, because of the teachers.
Last edited by Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Te amo"

Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:08 pm

Salve iterum,

MariPere' wrote:For any expression, pick your words; make sure you've got them declined (nouns/adjectives) or conjugated (verbs) properly...then merely arrange them in the order that sounds or seems best to you. >({|:-)


If that's the rule I would go for "te amo". Maybe it's sounds as the better version of those two because it's the same in Spanish and I know some Spanish. I speak it definitely much better than Latin, since I was able to have a more or less decent conversation with my friends from Mexico. I could never talk in Latin, forgot all of it though I had it four years at high school.
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Latin Alive!

Postby Aldus Marius on Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:50 am

Salve iterum, amicula!

Everyone I have ever known who took Latin in school has forgotten most or all of it, and I think that has everything to do with the way it is taught. It's what I've been calling the "Dissection Table" approach, in which the language is taken apart and analyzed long before it is ever actually used. No one learns any living language that way. If we're really serious about reviving Latin, we need to come up with something else...preferably a method that does not forget the only real reason to learn any language: To communicate effectively with another group of human beings.

I've actually gotten off a few pretty good rants on this subject, which may be enjoyed in the earlier threads of CollLingAnt: "Living Latin", "Teaching Latin to Children", and both editions of the reaction to the Vatican's New Latin Vocabulary (I don't remember the exact thread titles).

(CollLingAnt: I wonder what sodalicum could be formed to give us CollLingUncle?) >({|;-)

As for "Te amo", maybe it's that way in Spanish and Italian because it was the preferred method in Latin. Ya think...?

I know very little Spanish, and wish I knew less. So when I was dwelling with my sister for a time, and her Spanish-speaking clients would call her home-based business, I'd just natter on with them in Latin. We got understood!

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Mari on (and on) Latin

Postby Aldus Marius on Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:52 am

Salvete iterum, amici Romani...

If anyone wanted to look up my Living Latin Rants, I've saved you some trouble and found the threads they're in...

-- Living Latin (last post 12 Apr 2003)
-- Actual Living Latin (15 Apr 03)
-- Minimus (this one's good; 6 Aug 03)
-- New Latin for Modern Times (Vatican I; 28 Sep 03)
-- Is Latin Dead? (discussion; 29 Jan 04)
-- " " " (Poll; 27 May 04)
-- "the Latin for hot pants is brevissimae braccae" (Vatican II; 2 Sep 04)
-- Did You Take Latin? (Poll; 12 Ian 05)

Enjoy! >({|8-) - - <--- drooling idiot Mari
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Postby P. Scribonius Martialis on Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:41 am

I know very little Spanish, and wish I knew less.


Eh? That's an unusual attitude.
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Postby Q Valerius on Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:12 am

The less Spanish one knows the better. Latin is where its at.
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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:21 am

Actually, I only began to truly understand the use of the subjunctive, to give one example, once I learned Spanish. So my Spanish helped my Latin.
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My Spanish attitude

Postby Aldus Marius on Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:33 am

Salvete omnes...

Sed Mari:

>> I know very little Spanish, and wish I knew less.


Sed Scribonius Martialis:
> Eh? That's an unusual attitude.

Spanish was my first language; I learned English preparatory to entering kindergarten. After that, Spanish was something my Mater worried about far more than I did. She tried Spanish-at-Home; she tried Spanish-on-Sundays. I hated those almost as much as I hated "family dinners", and for the same reasons: They were an artificial exercise, filled with corrections and awkward silences. The adults were so concerned about how a thing was said that they didn't respond at all to what was being said. As far as I was concerned, that totally invalidated Spanish in my household as a means of actual communication. I've already told you how I feel about that. So when I reached adulthood, I promtly set about forgetting what little Spanish I still knew.

Spanish is a euphonic and graceful language; Medieval Spanish got my vote for "Most Beautiful Antique Language". I could listen to my high-school teacher, Mr. Christiansen, speak it all day. But it was also the language of those awkward conversations; of tacky telenovelas; and of family arguments. So it has left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I will still read Spanish literature. Inside my head I can make it sound like Mr. Christiansen, the memory of whose Castilian still makes me melt; and, of course, when reading it doesn't matter what I sound like at all. But I will not speak it, except for a dog's sake.

You see, all the Spanish I speak nowadays I (re)learned from scratch for the express purpose of chewing Spanish-speaking people out about how they treat their dogs. Of course I wish no dogs were being maltreated or abused by their owners, chained, beaten, starved for affection, left out alone in the cold; and if this were so, then clearly I would not need Spanish at all.

Hopefully this goes a little way towards explaining my comment.

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Postby Q Valerius on Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:11 am

Pardon me, Mexican is what I meant.
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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:09 pm

I agree with Marius. Spanish is one of the languages that flows easily along all the "registers" from the cant of a street urchin in Bogota to the mellifluous periods of a literary presentation in Mexico City. Yes, Mexico. I admit that most of the immigrants from Mexico have a horrible, nasal, whiny accent (that is why I too hated Spanish when I was growing up in southern California), but educated Mexicans speak a delightfully elegant version of the tongue.

The best way to be convinced of this, and what worked for me, is to watch old black and white Mexican movies. Try Dona Barbara (based on a Venezuelan novel by played by Mexican actors). Or any of the Luis Bunuel films that were filmed in Mexico (except for Los Olvidados which deals specifically with street urchins). Those films will fill you with a feeling of elegance as much as any Cary Grant movie.
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Postby Q Valerius on Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:36 am

Spanglish? The Spanish in Nuevo Laredo was very base, it seemed. "Jo" was pronounced like Joh in English (the 'o' sound was still Latin, but the J was definitely English).

Now the Classical Spanish, as Marius mentioned, is very beautiful indeed, rivaling even Italian.
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Postby Primus Aurelius Timavus on Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:49 am

When you right "Jo" do you mean "Yo" as in "I", the first person singular pronoun? If so, the pronounciation is similar to that in Argentina. I've never heard a Mexican pronounce y's (or ll's) that way.

Something written "jo" in Spanish would be pronounced "Ho".
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Postby Q Valerius on Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:05 am

Tergeste, you would think, but alas, the word "I" in Mexican (at least this particular town, especially close to the border) sounds like English 'j' + Italian 'o'.
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Form of "I love you"

Postby Valerius Claudius Iohanes on Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:59 pm

Salvete amici omnes -

Going back to Cleopatra Aelia's original query - doesn't the word order often have to do with the emphasis, in terms of "new info" versus "old info", id esset, the sentence payload versus the sentence's base? As I have come to understand Latin's minor sentence structures, the material getting special emphasis often goes first, ahead of what's already understood or expected.

Te amo would probably be the unmarked version, "I love you". But Amo te would correspond to "I LOVE you" (emphasis on love, not so much on you).

What say ye?
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Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:59 pm

Salve Valeri,

That's a good point of view. I never thought about it like that maybe it's because I learned Latin at the "dissection table" as Marius had put it. You never had any lessons where you learned the everyday language, like meeting friends at the Forum Romanum and have a chat. Or going shopping etc. And of course we never read anything like Ovidius' "Ars armoria".
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I love you?

Postby Anonymous on Thu May 05, 2005 1:02 pm

Ummidia omnibus lectoribus salutem dicat!

I would agree with the point about emphasis. Grammatically it would always be rendered as 'te amo' (no capitals, of course!) as pronouns are rarely left hanging at the end of sentences unless for scansion in poetry or after imperatives.

But..as a former poster remarked, emphasis is another factor and if we take into account that saying this particular phrase usually has far more flourish than saying 'I love apples', then it is more than likely that an ardent suitor would use the inverted word order for stress (which is demonstrated in the point above about word order following imperatives.)

The meaning is, of course, never affected by such devices but word order did have its place in nuance, just as it does in any language.
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