One Love...

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salvete!

Often we hear about true love... But does it exist? Is thereb only one person on this planet we can fall in love to? And what is love altogether?

Valete,

Barbatus

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Locate,

When I read the title I was reminded of that U2 song.

Anyway, it's an interesting question. I also see that no one responded to my last response on the True Self debate. It seems I am too powerful of a rhetor, wa ha ha.

There are many different forms of love, as we all know.

There is the kind of affection parents and children usually have, there is friendship or there is the love for pets or even for inanimate objects (for a moment I'm not taking bestialities or fetishism into account here). But I guess it's not that you're talking about.

But I guess what you mean is the "special kind of love" one can feel for someone else in an intimate relationship.

I don't think "the One" exists. It's a nice story, but no thanks. There are multiple persons, however, which can resemble a certain ideal, or can be a good match-up, but never perfect. I think true love is not only based on physical and mental attraction but should also have a strong component of empathy, i.e. that you can imagine what it feels like to be the other person or to think like the other person. Of course, respect is also important.

There are many, many factors and people will disagree on the importance of each.

Vale bene,
Draco

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salve,

I'll give you my vision on love:

Love is (as all of our feelings) something biochemical. Hormones play an important part in it. Just last night I was watching a documentary on hormones in which they said: "people do believe that fear and hate is something that is created by hormones, but of love they want to believe it is something supernatural". This is, I think, very true. Because love forces euphoric feelings people try to relatate it to supernatural things. But it isn't. Unfortunately.

But I don't believe in Darwinistic views that state that love doens't exist; that desire 'to mate' is the only thing that matters. There surely is some desire , but I don't think love has very much to see with it. How would you explain "one-night stands"?

For me, the one love does not exist. It would be very strange that people always find their 'one love' in their neighbourhood. I think we can live together with several people. What doesn't mean that the human being you chose to live together with should be the wrong one. It is natural (and human) to be able to share your life with more than only one person.


Valete,


Locatus

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Locate,

Love is (as all of our feelings) something biochemical. Hormones play an important part in it. Just last night I was watching a documentary on hormones in which they said: "people do believe that fear and hate is something that is created by hormones, but of love they want to believe it is something supernatural". This is, I think, very true. Because love forces euphoric feelings people try to relatate it to supernatural things. But it isn't. Unfortunately.

But I don't believe in Darwinistic views that state that love doens't exist; that desire 'to mate' is the only thing that matters. There surely is some desire , but I don't think love has very much to see with it. How would you explain "one-night stands"?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. On the one hand, you don't believe in the reductionist Darwinistic viewpoint but you also think love doesn't have much to do with selecting a partner. What does, then?

One-night stands? Well... that's Darwin in his purest essence. Sudden physical desire, limited to the moment itself (usually).

For me, the one love does not exist. It would be very strange that people always find their 'one love' in their neighbourhood.

I disagree with your last sentence. In fact it makes a lot of sense that we find our partners close to us. Why? First, people usually look for partners who have something in common, who share a certain mindset, outlook on life or have had similar experiences. A common frame of reference is also a very good lubricant (dare I use this word) for getting to know each other. How likely would it be that my "True Love" would live in Delhi when I don't speak Hindi, I don't adhere to Hinduism and have had a totally different education? No, I think, all in all, that it's very logical that our eventual partners are from our limited geographical circle. That's where you are most likely to find someone who fits your tastes and needs.

I think we can live together with several people. What doesn't mean that the human being you chose to live together with should be the wrong one. It is natural (and human) to be able to share your life with more than only one person.

I hope you mean more than one person over a period of time, but always only one? Or do you mean that it's possible to live with several people whom you love (in romantic sense) at the same time?

Vale bene!
Draco

[Horatius Piscinus]

Salvete

Once again, as with the discussion of "What is death?" you have strayed from your topic. The question "What is death?" is not the same as the question "Is there an after-life?" They are two different questions. In your discussion on "What is self?" you seem to lack common terms and then stray off into other areas. For Locatus it is simple, all is physical. Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality. In just such a world as Locatus paints, only the Absurd Man does not commit suicide. No doubt it was Locatus that depressed Lupus so. For the rest who do not hold to absolute materialism "Self" means more than just the physical body and you need to define "Self" before you go wandering off on whether we have a soul. Mencius began by adding in some terms. His expression of Plato's thoughts on the subject seem a little garbled, but a start. Tiberius' world is much different from Locatus, but seems undefined to me. And now you wish to confuse the subject of whether true love exists with the subject of whether monogomy is a natural state of humanity, and confuse love with sex and procreation., all without first defining any terms. I might also point out, if you will forgive an old man for doing so, that few of you in these discussions have much in the way of experience with death, or love, or marriage. How do you pose to discuss long term love relations when you really do not have that many years to base your ideas on?

First I would say that from what has been said already that some of you divorce the idea of love from sex. That I would agree with. Hormones, phenomes, and a few other physical aspects come into play with sex, but whether that has anything to do with love as companionship is another matter. Love is more companionship, and if you move on to marriage then that concept of love will be more important. Then you seem to be confusing the idea of "true love" with loving only one person, and some here seem to confuse that with marriage. Well, a romantic idea to be married to your one true love, but that never happens, and people tend to grow out of their one true loves as they get older.

Your conception of a true love will change as you mature. Ideally in a marriage both partners will continue to mature and grow, although never do they do so exactly at the same time, and so it becomes a matter of compatability between them, in order to remain together as one or the other is trying to catch up. What you look for as your own true love as a teen is not the same as you look for in your twenties, thirties, forties or fifties, and beyond that I will have to wait to see. I get the impression from my father that his ideal true love at this time in his life is one that doesn't bother or fuss over him. A younger person may confuse sexual attraction with love, in which case for a young man his ideal true love can change as quickly as he turns the page of a magazine, or as quickly as a line of coeds pass him by. Someone in their mid to late twenties, after passing through all too many sexual affairs may begin to seek one special person, in which case their ideals for a true love will be completely different from the adolescent teen just beginning to discover sex. And the older you get, the more your situation changes, your ideals will change, but there is also the matter of psychological development, that goes back to your question on Self. As your Self matures, what you will look for in a mate, spouse, or love (not necessarily all in one person) is bound to change as well.

Valete
Piscinus

[Gnaeus Dionysius Draco]

Salve Piscine!

Forgive me for barging into your posting and cutting it up to make it easier for me to respond to.

Once again, as with the discussion of "What is death?" you have strayed from your topic. The question "What is death?" is not the same as the question "Is there an after-life?" They are two different questions.

That's true. But the former question inevitably invokes the latter. Defining is a matter of including and excluding, and if you define death, some things must be excluded and examined, including the possibility of an afterlife. And since this is something most people tend to think about every now and then (rather than the event or concept of death itself) it's logical that the discussion drifted off towards this topic.

In your discussion on "What is self?" you seem to lack common terms and then stray off into other areas. For Locatus it is simple, all is physical. Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality. In just such a world as Locatus paints, only the Absurd Man does not commit suicide. No doubt it was Locatus that depressed Lupus so. For the rest who do not hold to absolute materialism "Self" means more than just the physical body and you need to define "Self" before you go wandering off on whether we have a soul. Mencius began by adding in some terms. His expression of Plato's thoughts on the subject seem a little garbled, but a start. Tiberius' world is much different from Locatus, but seems undefined to me.

This underlines my own theory: there's no self. People get into trouble when identifying it. Self = physical self is a theory that lacks an explanation for my severed hand problem and the existence of an indepedent soul cannot be proven and is rejected by nearly all modern philosophers. I'm surprised that no one came up with the idea that one's self is actually located in one's brain: memory, impulses, skills... are all recorded in the brain. But still I don't think the sum of these parts constitutes our self or personality (believing this theory would imply, for instance, that someone with amnesia has a smaller self or only a partial personality).

And now you wish to confuse the subject of whether true love exists with the subject of whether monogomy is a natural state of humanity, and confuse love with sex and procreation., all without first defining any terms. I might also point out, if you will forgive an old man for doing so, that few of you in these discussions have much in the way of experience with death, or love, or marriage. How do you pose to discuss long term love relations when you really do not have that many years to base your ideas on?

Absolutely. Ideas and thoughts change with experience.

Right now I am 20 years and have an idea about what a relationship should entail for me. But my ideas on this were radically different when I was 15 (although for you the difference between 15 and 20 may not mean much). And I guess they will indeed be different when I'm 35, 50 or 70.

First I would say that from what has been said already that some of you divorce the idea of love from sex. That I would agree with. Hormones, phenomes, and a few other physical aspects come into play with sex, but whether that has anything to do with love as companionship is another matter. Love is more companionship, and if you move on to marriage then that concept of love will be more important. Then you seem to be confusing the idea of "true love" with loving only one person, and some here seem to confuse that with marriage. Well, a romantic idea to be married to your one true love, but that never happens, and people tend to grow out of their one true loves as they get older.

Like I said, there are as many ideas and thoughts on love as there are people. I don't equal "true love" (in Hollywood sense, which neither Locatus nor I seem to believe in) to marriage, by the way.

Your conception of a true love will change as you mature. Ideally in a marriage both partners will continue to mature and grow, although never do they do so exactly at the same time, and so it becomes a matter of compatability between them, in order to remain together as one or the other is trying to catch up. What you look for as your own true love as a teen is not the same as you look for in your twenties, thirties, forties or fifties, and beyond that I will have to wait to see. I get the impression from my father that his ideal true love at this time in his life is one that doesn't bother or fuss over him. A younger person may confuse sexual attraction with love, in which case for a young man his ideal true love can change as quickly as he turns the page of a magazine, or as quickly as a line of coeds pass him by.

Imagine that :p.

Someone in their mid to late twenties, after passing through all too many sexual affairs may begin to seek one special person, in which case their ideals for a true love will be completely different from the adolescent teen just beginning to discover sex. And the older you get, the more your situation changes, your ideals will change, but there is also the matter of psychological development, that goes back to your question on Self. As your Self matures, what you will look for in a mate, spouse, or love (not necessarily all in one person) is bound to change as well.

I agree. It's very logical. I might also add that people differ so much in their ideas on what love and relationships are/mean/should be because their experiences differ. Speaking from personal experience, I had my first relationship when I was 17, without the usual short-term superficial flirts before that. The girl in question was insane (borderline syndrome). Someone who has had different experiences (for instance the more typical path you describe, or perhaps no experiences at all) will develop totally different ideas. Of course, even though people may have had different backgrounds their feelings and thoughts may eventually converge *poetic image of two streams flowing together *.

Optime vale!
Draco

[Marcus Pomponius Lupus]

Salvete,

Just a little note on the side

Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality. In just such a world as Locatus paints, only the Absurd Man does not commit suicide. No doubt it was Locatus that depressed Lupus so

It wasn't Locatus, it wasn't even with a member of the svr I was having these talks; just to prevent that members stop talking to Locatus for fear of a depression

Lupus

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salvete!

For Locatus it is simple, all is physical. Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality. In just such a world as Locatus paints, only the Absurd Man does not commit suicide.

That's sooooo true! You're completely right, my friend. Only the Absurd Man doesn't...

The girl in question was insane (borderline syndrome).

Noooooooooooo! The horror! You think to relax a little with a nice and fair discussion in the SVR, but noooooooooo!

(oh, for the people who don't understand: the second question on my exam this morning was: "explain the psychoanalistic view on the borderline syndrome")

Just a little note on the side

Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality. In just such a world as Locatus paints, only the Absurd Man does not commit suicide. No doubt it was Locatus that depressed Lupus so

It wasn't Locatus, it wasn't even with a member of the svr I was having these talks; just to prevent that members stop talking to Locatus for fear of a depression

Damn', I tried to depress him, but it wasn't me. Oh well, I suspect the results will be the same anyway. But I tried...
It wouldn't be the first time somebody walks away from me saying I'm derpressing... But you learn to live with it .

Loc

[Q. C. Locatus Barbatus]

Salvete,

Some may have noticed I have a quite medical and biological view on life (in general). Apart from the fact that my parents are associated with the medical sector (my mother is a nurse and my father is a specialist), I really think this is the only logical view. I understand some people want to see more and, more common, want to believe in more, but I really don't see the evidence. I do not judge these people, and I see it as a human error to seek and hope for the unknown. I have been tempted too, but I try to resist everyday; keeping sober and looking at the facts. I really would like to believe we have a soul, there is an after-life and that love is something supernatural; but the facts deny it. I do not say that love isn't something special, but I do recognize it as being something to explain by chemical reactions in our body.

I base my views on recent experiments in psychology. More and more we are discovering what the brain is, and what parts serve to what purpose. e.g. by stimulating (with electric pulses) a certain part of the brain, scientists have been able to force 'religious experiences'. Epileptics (people with a brain disfunction) in the same part of their brain have said to have seen "the virgin Mary, the Lord, bleeding statues, etc". Researchers have concluded that mohammed most certainly has been an epileptic, as well as some other "deities/saints (e.g. Daniel)".
Also experiments with hormones have proven that when adding hormones the mood of the subjects can change very abrupt. By adding testosteron in a female body, the subjects suddenly develops a desire for sex. I'm convinced that when we find the right chemical substantion, we can make people falling in love to whom they want to. I wouldn't like to see it happening, but I believe it's possible.
Another proof is the fact that we can influence moods by medication. Anti-depressiva can change our mood, as well as neuroleptica etc.

For Locatus it is simple, all is physical. Fatalistic, meaningless, a depressingly "go throw yourself in the lake" kind of reality.

Some people see my views as depressing. I see it as reality. But instead of being depressed by the fact that all what we hope for is not true, we should be wondering every day. How is it possible that our body keeps functioning almost perfect everyday, despite of the many conditions it has to cope with? How is it possible that new life is created and can be so beautiful?

I don't think my thoughts are depressing. Maybe they are for people who wished for a "heaven" or had an idealistic view on religion or love or death etc. But that depends of the person who reads this.

Valete,

Locatus