Computers and the soul

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'Puters and Souls

Postby Aldus Marius on Thu Feb 13, 2003 2:03 am

Ave(te), O faithful Reader(s)!

The good Coruncaneus asks us to to forgive him ("Ignosce!"). I will not. Instead I shall bless and thank him; for, as the only Roman computer tech-support person I know of, I've had more than a few thoughts myself on this subject. It is particularly timely in that I am about to peel an ill-advised upgrade OS off my current Laptop and replace it with the version it was actually built for. (Either my Lappie demands too much of the OS, or the OS demands too much of itself; it demands almost nothing of the hardware, which may be why it is so unstable.)

I am happy to see this topic; within a few days I shall have something to say about it myself. (Present, earlier tasks demand completion tonight.) An odd angle, yes...but it is in just such corners of the Roman world that the Wanderer finds himself most at home! >({|;-)

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Re: Computers and the soul

Postby Anonymous on Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:16 am

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:Let me preface any remarks I make by saying it is late where I'm at, It has been a long day and generally I dislike MS Windows Operating Systems.


I don't think I've ever laughed so hard in my life, partly because I've experienced your frustration over the exact same issue more times than I even care to admit. I can also appreciate how the mind begins to degenerate rapidly after days of no rest, and begins to operate in rather humourous and sometimes even borderline schizophrenic ways when overstressed and in desperate need of sleep. :wink:

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:That said, I shall probably be offline for a few days as I give this workstation I call my online home a reformatting that it so richly deserves (shakes fist at computer :x )


Considering that I once threw a computer out a third-story window (yes, I did actually look first!), I can certainly empathise with your frustration and resultant temptation to resort to violence, but computers are like children in that regard; so tempting to throw them out the window when they test your patience, yet proper restraint must be exercised... sometimes. :twisted:

Anyway, since I didn't paste from your text anything that may give a hint as to where this whole line of pointless dialogue is leading to, I'll state briefly for the benefit of everyone else that you had an epiphany of sorts when you discovered the parallels between computer hardware and software, versus the human body and soul. Having clarified that at least somewhat (however vaguely), let us proceed:

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:Of course there is the case that more than one piece of software and more than one operating system can exist on a single computer... could many souls exist in a single body?


Only if, like your hard-drive, you are able to partition a person's brain in such a way that multiple souls or personalities are allowed to coexist, separate in a sense, yet still physically housed within the same unit, even though, like people with MPD, one personality or soul is never aware of the other's existence, so it is with multiple operating systems; indeed, such manner of persons already exist, but purposely manipulating normal people through laboratory experiments to produce the aforementioned effect is an entirely different matter altogether.

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:What of the hot-swappable hardware components and USB plug-and-play devices? are these prosthetics or different parts of the body that grow in time?


Stop giving me ideas! :twisted:

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:Does the fact that one can install the same operating system on another computer at a later time indicate the possibility of transmigration of souls?


The installation of the same operating system on another computer would be more likely akin to cloning your mind or soul, while to be more specific, the copying of all your personal files and information to those other computers would most definitely in my mind constitute either cloning your present mind (since it's not the hard-drive that is cloned, but actually the data that resides within), or if you look at it from a standpoint of taking your present mental state, migrating it, and allowing it to continue where it left off, that would be an interesting and roundabout way of looking at reincarnation, with certain obvious disclaimers, such as the fact that such action would be tantamount to a new idea of multiple simultaneous existences, once you break free from the limitations of human perception of time taking place on a linear scale, and instead view that all things past present and future actually exist at all points in one simultaneous instant called Eternity.

Ti. Coruncanius wrote:And if one installs a different OS onto a computer after wiping the old one, is this analogous of reincarnation?


Actually, I would think that such a scenario would be much more analogous to a form of possession, rather than reincarnation, with the obvious exception being that in this particular scenario, the original soul is actually driven out of the body entirely, and another assumes its place completely and without competing for control, versus the subjugation and enslavement of and/or grafting onto another soul and thus merging with it to create one. In either event, we're still dealing with the same physical body, so reincarnation is out of the question, unless of course you believe that you don't need to be reborn into a new body in the womb, but rather can simply boot people out of their own and steal their bodies. Which would make for an interesting subject all by itself, but unfortunately I think the Censores would have us both either beheaded, divided into three parts like Gaul, tied to an oar, left to perish on a windswept crag somewhere, or else assassinated by conspirators at the mall. 8)

In any event, with how much enthusiasm I read your post, and the resultant ideas it's given me, I would hope that others would allow themselves to at least temporarily cast their seriousness aside and submit to a bit of fun and join in the discussion, please. :)
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Re: Computers and the soul

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:19 pm

Gaius Iulius Octavianus wrote:The installation of the same operating system on another computer would be more likely akin to cloning your mind or soul, while to be more specific, the copying of all your personal files and information to those other computers would most definitely in my mind constitute either cloning your present mind (since it's not the hard-drive that is cloned, but actually the data that resides within), or if you look at it from a standpoint of taking your present mental state, migrating it, and allowing it to continue where it left off, that would be an interesting and roundabout way of looking at reincarnation, with certain obvious disclaimers, such as the fact that such action would be tantamount to a new idea of multiple simultaneous existences, once you break free from the limitations of human perception of time taking place on a linear scale, and instead view that all things past present and future actually exist at all points in one simultaneous instant called Eternity.


Although I am anything but a platonic or neoplatonic, I must say that this reminds me of the memes-theory. Namely, that all form of knowledge is somehow a lifeform, a virus, that is also in constant struggles with other forms of knowledge (~ analogous to Darwin's natural selection and survival of the fittest theory).

According to the memes theory, the success of ideas or thoughts like christianity or islam is explained: it can gain an easy access to most people's brains and quickly overpowers the present memetic forms of knowledge or adapts them to it. Those with an atheist mindset are immune to the theist memes but may be very influential to cynic memes, depending on the individual's predisposition.

You can even take this a step further and see the world of knowledge, mindsets and philosophy as a natural world with herbivores and predators. Nietzsche (sorry Piscinus ;)) could be regarded as a predatory philosophy in many aspects, including the most important one: there can't be too much predators (Übermenschen) or else the system collapses. Out of 1000 herbivores there should be no more than 5 predators. Conversely, if a herbivore philosophy/religion such as christianity would become too dominant, it would also extinguish or, more likely, diverge because there wouldn't be enough memetic diversity.

Gaius Iulius Octavianus wrote: Which would make for an interesting subject all by itself, but unfortunately I think the Censores would have us both either beheaded, divided into three parts like Gaul, tied to an oar, left to perish on a windswept crag somewhere, or else assassinated by conspirators at the mall. 8)


Although the censores are the safeguarders of morality here, it's the aediles who walk the streets and visit the public forum to see nothing disruptive is happening. And nothing disruptive is happning so far ;). Please proceed.

Optime vale!
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Postby Anonymous on Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:25 pm

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:Conversely, if a herbivore philosophy/religion such as christianity would become too dominant, it would also extinguish or, more likely, diverge because there wouldn't be enough memetic diversity.


Ironically, that is not too far a stretch from what actually happened, with the obvious exception being that it didn't go belly-up after it had eradicated all resistance, but actually grew stronger. After the year 312CE, despite the temporary inconvenience of Julian from 361-363, they never lost their stranglehold on power ever again, and not too surprisingly, they immediately began to reveal their true nature, not as a "herbivore, sheeplike" religion, but as a terroristic cult of ravenous wolves, which it has always been at its core.

By contrast, with the onset of the 18th and 19th centuries, the Church gradually began to lose its power and by the modern day, it is only a hollow shell (almost a spoof caricature) of what it once was; not surprisingly they're nice to us again since they know that they're no longer allowed to burn us alive at the stake anymore, and that if they aggravate people enough, they'll go out of business, or at least be strapped for cash after all the lawsuits. (Think of the sheer humour and weight of that idea for a moment: Can you imagine anyone filing a lawsuit against the Church in the 13th century?) :lol:

Ironically, the Fundamentalist "born-again" Christians have now almost completely eclipsed the Catholic Church (particularly if not exclusively in the United States) as the instrument of intolerance and terror. The Catholic Church, particularly since the Second Vatican Council, basically is a stranger to itself, since it resembles in absolutely no way shape or form that of its former self, except in outward displays of pomp and pageantry, as well as the obvious influence it can still wield in certain circles by recalling 2,000 years of history and culture, which the Protties obviously don't have.

It is now the Baptists, Pentacostals and such who terrorize people here in the United States, burn books, harrass and bully non-Christian kids at school, beat homosexuals to death and/or drag them behind pickup-trucks, blow-up abortion clinics, etc... and that is not unfair to say, because it not only happens, but happens on a frequent enough basis to warrant making such a sweeping but nevertheless accurate generalisation.

Strange in a way, considering that the Fundamentalist (radical "born-again" fringe) Christians have absolutely no Tradition to speak of, and are so hopelessly out of step with reality and their "Sola Scriptura" literal-creationist mentality (forget the fact that if it weren't for the Catholic Church, to be fair, they wouldn't have their Bible!), yet the same tendency for violence and oppression is still there.

Anyway, I know this is completely off the general topic originally intended both by the title of the thread, as well as that of your post, but I felt it necessary to clarify anyway.

Gnæus Dionysius Draco wrote:Although I am anything but a platonic or neoplatonic, I must say that this reminds me of the memes-theory. Namely, that all form of knowledge is somehow a lifeform, a virus, that is also in constant struggles with other forms of knowledge (~ analogous to Darwin's natural selection and survival of the fittest theory).

According to the memes theory, the success of ideas or thoughts like christianity or islam is explained: it can gain an easy access to most people's brains and quickly overpowers the present memetic forms of knowledge or adapts them to it. Those with an atheist mindset are immune to the theist memes but may be very influential to cynic memes, depending on the individual's predisposition.


With the above two paragraphs I strongly agree; I also believe that specific genetic defects may account for having susceptibility to one particularly unhealthy meme over another, which is why I'm doubly troubled by the fact that Christians are allowed to breed the way they do. Like a virus that must replicate itself and spread for the sake of survival, so Christianity has survived thus far exclusively by creating dogma and instituting a pogrom of violence against all resistance which, not by accident, sets the stage for such a scenario, and the past 2,000 years of history which never should've even been allowed to happen had Rome more of a clue as to the threat they posed. The very fact that emperors even as late as Diocletian (the last emperor who could've made a difference) had a chance to reverse the effects, considering that he ruled from 284-305 (21 years!) and yet only instituted the purge in his last year or two of life, when he could've accomplished far more had he started on his first day in office. Ditto on many other emperors with long reigns who never did anything about it except conveniently ignore it.

Anyway, for the sake of not being thrown off the message-boards, this is the last rant I will make about Christianity, but suffice it to say, I only feel so passionately about such matters and say the things I do because (1) They are true and accurate, and (2) because the only truly great Empire in all of history, which flourished for well over 1,000 years prior, allowed itself to succumb to this virus and in little more than a hundred years completely collapsed (and even then only officially; in reality, it collapsed the moment that Julian died fighting the Persians on the field of battle - 26th of June, 363. With him died the last hopes of resurrecting the Roman Empire to its former state of glory and grandeur.)

On a separate note, it shames me to admit that I used to have quite a respectable collection of books by Nietzsche, Heidigger, Stirner, Kant, Sartre, etc... but then lost them all in a fire. I'm beginning the slow, arduous, and sometimes frustrating process of rebuilding my library a little at a time. To be sure, the books I had were extremely frail and were literally coming apart at the seams, so I suppose it was only a matter of time before they would've had to have been discarded anyway, but still, I like old tattered books. :wink:

Vale optime,
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