Page 1 of 1

Greek Lawyers Upset Over Stone View of Alexander

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:09 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Appearently some homophobic Greeks do not like the portrayal of Alexander the great in the upcoming movie Alexander which opens on november the 23rd. It is something that seem to be hard to accept that people were different 2000 years ago even in areas like sexuality.
Greek Lawyers Upset Over Stone View of Alexander
Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:06 PM ET

By Karolos Grohmann
ATHENS (Reuters) - A group of Greek lawyers are threatening to sue Warner Bros. film studios and Oliver Stone, director of the widely anticipated film "Alexander," for suggesting Alexander the Great was bisexual.

The lawyers have already sent an extrajudicial note to the studio and director demanding they include a reference in the title credits saying his movie is a fictional tale and not based on official documents of the life of the Macedonian ruler.

"We are not saying that we are against gays but we are saying that the production company should make it clear to the audience that this film is pure fiction and not a true depiction of the life of Alexander," Yannis Varnakos, who spearheads the campaign by 25 lawyers, told Reuters Friday.

Stone was quoted on the Web Site as telling the upcoming edition of Playboy magazine that the film's depiction of Alexander could offend some.

"We go into his bisexuality. It may offend some people, but sexuality in those days was a different thing," he was quoted as saying.

While the film starring Colin Farrell and Angelina Jolie will be released on Nov. 24, Varnakos said he has already gathered enough information regarding the content of the movie to suggest there are "inappropriate references."

"We have not seen the film but from the information we have already there are references to his alleged homosexuality, a fact that is in no historical document or archive on Alexander," he said. "Either they make it clear that this is a work of fiction or we will take the case further."

This is not the first time Greeks have been angered by suggestions Alexander was homosexual and had affairs with young men.

Two years ago hundreds of northern Greeks from the province of Macedonia, where he was born, stormed an archaeological symposium after one speaker presented a paper on the homosexuality of Alexander. Police were called in to evacuate the participants.

One of the greatest military leaders of all time, Alexander, who was never defeated in battle, conquered about 90 percent of the then-known world before his mysterious death at the age of 32, building an empire that stretched from the Mediterranean to Afghanistan.

Varnakaos said as Stone has the right to freely express himself, the audience should have the right to know.

"We cannot come out and say that (former U.S.) President John F. Kennedy was a shooting guard for the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team and so Warner cannot come out and say Alexander was gay," Varnakos said.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.
maybe it is something we should leave open for debating?


PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:33 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
"We are not against gays..."

That phrase alone is completely retarded. How can you be 'against' gays? You can be 'against' the Catholic Church, you can be 'against' polytheism or you can be 'against' raising taxes. But can you be 'against' black people? Can you be 'against' working mothers? That little phrase betrays that whoever is protesting against that movie thinks being homosexual is just an opinion, or worse, a 'lifestyle'.

Sorry for the off-topic rant.

I guess that in today's world, a little more of that Greco-Roman healthy way of looking at sex wouldn't hurt. The pornographic pictures on some plates and vases are incredibly funny.

Optime valete,

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:43 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus

Unfortunatly I fear that this kind of attitude will be more frequent when the movie opens this week. I think that many people looking for a Conan the barbarian or a superhero is going to be disappointed because those characters are not bisexual and Alexander is. Also I think that many conservative Christians will oppose this movie, especially in America and Greece where they on one hand don't mind people being gay so long as it is not thrown in their faces like gays wanted to get marry and all.
Also Greece is more or less influenced by the orthodox church who still has an strong grip on its people and the government. It wouldn't surprise me that the orthodox church would recommend people not to see the movie if they don't do what the lawyers want them to do.
It only shows that homophobia still exists in the world.



PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:42 am
by Q Valerius
Homophobia mostly from the Christiani. Everyone knows the cinaedi were respectable as long as you're not the bitch.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:30 am
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Well the problem is that no one can really prove that he was bisexual nor that he wasn't. The matter of the fact is that the Greeks consider him a national hero and don't like it if he was accused of being gay. Trust me, do yourself all a favor and don't discuss this with a Greek. I have seen what happens and take my word for it, they will fight you every step of the way to prove to you that Greeks weren't gay and Alexander wasn't either.At least, the Greeks I have met have done this.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 2:11 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Salve Orce,

I'll have to contradict that. I was in Luxembourg at a gaming tournament and I met a man there from Greece. The conversation came to the fact that I studied ancient Greek, and his first remark, with a big grin, was: "Ahh, but they were GAY huh, the ancient Greeks, yes!". But perhaps he was an exception more than a rule :D.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 8:47 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Salve Draco

You could be right. Maybe that guy was born in a Greek family that did not lie in Greece. Maybe American Greeks, Belgian Greeks have a different opinion on the matter than a Greek living in Greece, who still suffers from the orthodox church who has a huge control over what happens in Greece similar to that of that the dark ages for the rest of Europe. True, there might have been improvements, but freedom of religion and probably opinion is a precious commodity one that so far has only been giving to Christianity, Judaism and Islam.



PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:48 pm
by Quintus Pomponius Atticus
Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:Well the problem is that no one can really prove that he was bisexual nor that he wasn't.

Fact is that the ancient Greeks did not even have a word for "homosexual" or "bisexual". I guess they just naturally assumed that human beings were bisexual and did not even think about it.


Q. Pomponius Atticus

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:32 am
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus

What most of u take for granted concerning this cultural approach towards sexuality, they don't. Its like telling a muslim or a conservative Christian or Jew that gays are just like the rest of us, that they are normal people. You will get the same result of it.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:51 pm
by Q Valerius
Did the Greeks not have bisexual? I know Latin had cinaedus... But truly all are born bisexual at least to some degree. There exists no black or white but only shades of gray.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:33 am
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Salve Quinte Vaemariani,

Indeed that is correct, evidence for that is abundant. Hence I think that many gay/bisexual movements use the rainbow as their banner.

Vale bene,

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:17 pm
by Quintus Pomponius Atticus
Q. Vaemarianus Scerius wrote:Did the Greeks not have bisexual? I know Latin had cinaedus...

The primary meaning of 'cinaedus' is described by Lewis and Short as
"I. He who practises unnatural lust, a sodomite, catamite"

In less 'moralistic' and more descriptive terms (and as the word is really used in the texts), it refers to a freeborn male who fulfills the "passive" role in a homosexual relationship.

The Romans did not mind at all if a freeborn male citizen had a sexual relationship with one of his slave boys, but only if he took the active role in that relationship, i.e. if he was the 'penetrator' rather than the 'penetrated'. If he took the passive role on the other hand, he was scandalised by his fellow citizens as a 'cinaedus' about as fiercely as modern homophobics rail against homosexuals in general.

They also objected if a freeborn male citizen had sex with another freeborn male citizen, or if he engaged in a sexual relationship with men beyond adolescence (what they approved of, we now call paedophilia !).

As a concluding remark, I'd point out that the Romans did have strong sexual values and taboos (they were not sexually 'immoral' or 'amoral' as one sometimes reads) but these were simply different, and sometimes even contrary (as my last example showed) to ours.



P.S. : For Dutch speakers, this subject, among others, is treated in an interesting way and with textual examples in the book "Amor Roma", published by Davidsfonds Uitgeverij in 2003.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:43 pm
by Tiberius Dionysius Draco
Salvete Romani,

in the end, the Greek lawyers decided not to file a complaint. They watched the movie and decided that it wasn't as bad as they thought it was going to be.

They said there is only one kiss in it that hints at him being bisexual but in the end, it wasn't serious enough to start a lawsuit over it.

Valete bene,

[source: TV1 Teletekst]