Collegium Huh??

The people, conflicts, and daily life of the Roman army.

Moderator: Aldus Marius

Collegium Huh??

Postby Aldus Marius on Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:44 pm

Salvete commilitones...

Someone or something (I'd prefer someone) has changed the name of the Collegium Militarium forum. It is now Collegium Militare.. Why fer...? As far as I know, the prior version was equally gramatically correct (O Inquisitor, tag me gently if I'm wrong!), and far kinder to the eye and ear.

Explanations/excuses, anybody? (And while I am no longer Rector, as a founder of said Collegium, should I not at least have been given a heads-up? I've never changed the names of your children...)


Gratias ago,
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

Postby Aulus Dionysius Mencius on Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:40 pm

Mi Mari

It wasn't me, really it wasn't....
Were I to change it, I surely would plea with you first, ya know that.

Iubeo aliquem valere
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
Praefectus Belgicae, Rector of ColMil et Senator
User avatar
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
V. Cornicen
V. Cornicen
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 1:04 pm
Location: Ganda, Belgica

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:15 pm

Salvete Mari et Menci,

The culprits are Lupus and I. Lupus recently went over the Latin on the site and discovered numerous mistakes, or awkward forms. Collegium militarium was one of these. While it is grammatically correct in its meaning "college of the military affairs" (if you suppose "militaria" is a pluralia tantum that stands for "everything military"), it is a meaning invenetd by us, because Latin had a word "militaria", which meant "military exercise", making this collegium "college of the military exercises". So, the meaning would become very ambiguous.

"Collegium militare", on the other hand, simply means "military college" and covers all meanings at once and unambiguously.

You may note that for similar reasons, the name of former collegium Latinum has also been changed.

Valete bene!
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Put it back.

Postby Aldus Marius on Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:49 am

Salve, commilitones...

Menci mi, I would never have suspected you of midnight end-runs and other such nonsense. You have an excellent track record for courtesy, as witnessed by our correspondence about the recent campaign for the Rectorship. You're off the hook; even were some impolite person to accuse you of such a thing, I would not believe it until you said so yourself.

That leaves poor(?) Draco...

Draco amice, I like and respect you, and I have a great respect indeed for your Latinity. You even got me to change my .sig block, a thing that no one else had even attempted in three major Roman organizations (oh, yeah, and the Pile) and a dozen years. I may very well not have accepted such a correction from anybody but you. >({|;-)

But in this thing I believe you are mistaken. Oh, I'm sure the grammar all shakes out; but if militarium has acquired a few new shades of meaning in the last few centuries, I plead with you to be a living-Latinist and let it keep them! All was not frozen when Cicero's head rolled onto the beach. Militarium means what we need it to mean, and it is the name we're used to. "Militare", if taken just as literally, means "to serve as a soldier" (see numerous inscriptions to troops who "lived XXXV years" and "served" [ militaverunt, I think ]XX of them. Are we now the College of Those (Who Are) To Serve...? Shall I establish a smallish recruiting-office?

If militarium now means "pertaining to military affairs", I would say that is an accurate assessment of the discussion here. Let us not fall into the trap of elevating form before function.

In fide (You taught me that!!),
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

Postby Marcus Pomponius Lupus on Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:06 am

Salve Mari,

No need to question Draco about this, as I was the one who made this change. I've recently gone over all Latin used on our site and forum, because I think it's important for a Societas such as ours to use Latin correctly when we use it.

This doesn't mean that I demand everyone to use perfect Latin or no Latin at all, far from it. I will probably have made a few mistakes as well (I've translated the home page, so that should be up in a few days I think) and I would love to see some more Latin on this forum, I even tried to open an all-Latin thread but that didn't work out.

However, I do believe that all Latin that is permanently on display, both on our site as on our forum, should be as correct as possible.

As for this change, these are the two options:

1) Collegium Militarium, with militarium coming from militaria, which means military exercises, so that this would be, as Draco said, College of the military exercises

2) Collegium Militare, with militare not coming from the verb militare, as you had explained it, but from the adjective militaris -is -e, meaning military, which seemed the best option to me.

You have a very valid point about living Latin, though, Mari, and I can understand that using militare may make it seem less alive, more archaic,...

I guess it's up to the Rector or somebody else to decide, using militare is only an alternative I offer, not something that has to be used.

I hope you're not offended by this, or that you think I'm trying to overpower you with all this Latin, I'm much to shy for that, seriously, I mean that.

Vale bene
Lupus
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Iurisconsultus
User avatar
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Eques
Eques
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:40 pm
Location: Belgica

Thank'ee!

Postby Aldus Marius on Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:22 am

Salve, Wolf-Brother...!

I am pleased to see your post, for two reasons: You have explained where you got militare-as-an-Adjective; and you have left the final adoption of the new title up to our Rector (who isn't you, btw; p'r'aps someone now needs to change his .sig block). >({|;-)

You see, everywhere I looked, militare was an Infinitive Verb, hence (as you noted) the grammatical part of my objection. (I didn't know I knew enough grammar to make a grammatical objection, either!! As my character said in the RP, I'm just full of surprises.) 'Tis good to know one can achieve the same result with better ancestry.

All the same, I prefer militarium. You see, in all those places where militare is an infinitive, militarium has a primary or strong secondary and "period" (not new-ish) meaning of "pertaining to military affairs". I'm glad you understood my point about Living Latin; but in this case it need not even have been invoked.

Near as I can tell, we've got two equally-valid terms for the same thing. Gratias tibi ago for understanding, and for not making the change mandatory. Now let's step back and let the Rector sort them out...! [feg]

In amicitia et fide,
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

Postby Aulus Dionysius Mencius on Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:15 pm

Salvete omnes!

It is good indeed that this matter was not mandatory... Or I, as Rector, would have seen it revoked and put up for debate.

What I would propose, is this: let us stick with Militarium. I mean, I doubt people who come across this collegium would expect it to contain descriptions of exercises. It is rather obvious what the term stands for, also because of those introductory lines that state we are in business to discuss topics that relate to Roman military. So there is no ambiguity present.

Iubeo aliquem valere
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
Praefectus Belgicae, Rector of ColMil et Senator
User avatar
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
V. Cornicen
V. Cornicen
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 1:04 pm
Location: Ganda, Belgica

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:40 pm

Salvete collegae,

Perhaps we could set up a little poll? Just a suggestion.

Valete,
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Aulus Dionysius Mencius on Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:34 am

Mi Draco,

I thought about including a poll myself earlier... but I did not, simply because my judgement as Rector was sought after in this matter.

Vale bene
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
Praefectus Belgicae, Rector of ColMil et Senator
User avatar
Aulus Dionysius Mencius
V. Cornicen
V. Cornicen
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 1:04 pm
Location: Ganda, Belgica

Gallop Poll? Heiress Poll? Other? None? [g]

Postby Aldus Marius on Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:56 am

Salvete amici...

...and, yes, we are all still friends; in the SVR we can debate just about anything on its own merits, not on ours! [g]

Actually, as the creator of this topic, I had the opportunity to link it to a poll. I did not do so because I did not want to bypass whatever chain-of-command there might be to work on the matter. Thought I'd poll you guys first. Remember, it started as an inquiry: "Wha' happen'? Why?" The answer to that would determine what needed to be done next, and by who. It could have turned out that Rector Mencius wanted to do a poll. If he'd wanted to, and I'd gone ahead and done one prematurely, then I would've been the one doing end-runs around my superiors...and we can't have that.

So...It is resolved, to my complete satisfaction. Sometimes it really does pay to go through channels. >({|:-)

In fide,
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

See, right here

Postby Marcus Pomponius Lupus on Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:22 am

Salvete,

I'm glad to see it's resolved and in a friendly way as well, a pat on the back for everyone ! :wink:

By the way, Mari, I just noticed that you actually come up with something behind the Post subject line every time. You're probably the only who does this and I just saw it now for the first time. Who knows how many hidden references I missed over the years ! :shock:

Valete bene
Lupus
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Iurisconsultus
User avatar
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Eques
Eques
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:40 pm
Location: Belgica

Missed me?

Postby Aldus Marius on Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:48 am

Salve iterum, mi Lupe!

To retrieve my subject-headers, go to something of mine; click on 'Profile'; and there will be a link to "Show All Posts" by Marius Peregrine. It will not show the full text of each post; just the header info (Date, Subject) and the first few lines.

I've a hair over 300 of 'em now, some silly, some significant. Almost all are blessed with an actual title. Consider it my reward to those who do pay close attention...! >({|;-)

Not only Programmers write Easter Eggs...
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

Work Order Request

Postby Aldus Marius on Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:54 pm

Salve, O Rector, et salvete omnes!

Hey, ummm...The Collegial name-change: How come it's not fixed yet?

Don't tell me I wrote all those tear-jerker posts for nothing!!


363 Supply Squadron: Meet Every Demand...
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:00 am

Salvete,

Weren't we going to settle things with a poll?

Valete,
Draco
Gn. Dionysius Draco Invictus
User avatar
Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:04 pm
Location: Belgica

Postby Marcus Pomponius Lupus on Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:14 am

Salve Draco,

No, Mencius decided not to. So it should be Collegium Militarium again.

Vale bene
Lupus
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Iurisconsultus
User avatar
Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Eques
Eques
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:40 pm
Location: Belgica

Work Order Complete.

Postby Aldus Marius on Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:15 am

And it is.

Macte esto! Evoe!!

Going away pleased...
Aldus Marius Peregrinus.
User avatar
Aldus Marius
Curialis
Curialis
 
Posts: 2173
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2002 3:16 am
Location: Within hailing distance


Return to Collegium Militarium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron