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daily life of a greek

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:32 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Salvete
I can't stop wondering how the daily life of a Greecian must have look like. From what i have gather in my essay on Athens which has a section on women and how their lives looked like. I guess Scorpio hasn't got there translating it. Does this topic belong here or in the other forum?
Vale
Sokarus Aurelius Orcus

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:08 am
by Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Salve Sokare,

Hmm, the daily life of a Greek, not so easy to answer that one, first of all, what kind of Greek are we talking about ?

A Minoan Greek, standing before Knossos, the last palace of his nation, and wondering why the Gods have sent those Myceneans to conquer them ?

Or perhaps one of those brave adventurers from Euboia, who set out in the seventh century BC to found new colonies on the shore of Italy, thus naming it Magna Graecia ?

Or even later, a citizen of Athens, on his way to the ecclesia, wondering how he'll vote, or perhaps his wife, sitting at home wondering why she can't vote ?

Or a Greek Hoplite, not facing other Greeks this time, but drawing strenght from their presence while facing the Persian army in the fields near Olympia ?

Or maybe a Spartan boy of 8 years old, who is being sent to the army barracks so that his training can begin ?

Or a Corinthian slave, wondering what his new dominus will be like and if his children will prove to be as eager to learn Greek as their father told him.

Or...

As you can see, there are numerous daily life scenario's based on what gender, age you Greek is and when and where he or she is living. Making essays or studying very specific periods of time is usually the best way of finding out how they used to live. Perhaps there could be a nice project into this, who knows ? ;-)

Vale bene
Lupus

PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:14 am
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Salve Lupe
Interesting suggestion you made, Lupus. Mayby that would be an interesting project to stimulate some activity in this forum. We could limit 2 or 3 people to one scenario that you bring on the table or that they want to explore. Mayby is this something for the recot to decide.
Vale
Sokarus Aurelius Orcus

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:02 pm
by Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Salve,

Well, because I'm pretty busy with school and other things, I'd rather have the Rector, Atticus, guide this project, if he wants to of course. I would be happy to participate though, so, Attice, what do you say ?

Vale bene
Lupus

halping hand

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:05 pm
by Q. C. Locatus Barbatus
Salve Amici,


If you need some help, count me in. Maybe there are some more people interested? Someone?

please?


Loc

project

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:47 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Salvete
We could put this project in the freezer until the exam period is over. I think its needles to say that i'm interested but i would like to do this after the exam period. I think that you all might agree with me on this. The exam period is coming plus the elections. Also the two week vacation i have, i will use to do find some books on this topic.
Valete
Sokarus Aurelius Orcus

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:50 pm
by Marcus Pomponius Lupus
Salve Sokare,

I think most of us either have no exams around this period, or have them after the Christmas-holiday, so there will always be people short on time during what ever period, but still, it's the Rector's call, what say you, Attice ?

Valete optime !
Lupus

PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:49 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
salvete
Last summer i bought the movie Amazons and Gladiators (not recomended by the way) and it amazes me that they brought modern influences into the tale: like the sister of the heroine who has different partners every week. I always thought this to be a modern day thing. I would like know what the differences were , if any, between the youth of today and of antiquity? Especially the differences between dating and relationships in antiquity and now? Because i can hardly imagine that teenage girls/ boys or women/ men for that matter jumped from one partner to another sorth of speak. It is a part of daily life that is different from one culture to another, but i'm referring to the Hellenic view on relationships and dating, not the Roman one. Although that would make a good topic in the other collegium about the daily life.
valete optime in pace deorum

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:12 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Hi
Concerning our project about the daily life of a Greek: are there any decisions made offline about this or so? Forgive me for being impatient here but i can't wait to see this project started. So Attice, what do you say, my friend?
Bye

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:24 pm
by Tiberius Dionysius Draco
Ave Sokare,

as Lupus said earlier, we first of all need to know what kind of Greek we are talking about. Or were you referring to your post about dating?

Let us know.

Valete,

Tiberius Dionysius Draco

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:28 pm
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Tiberii
I wasn't referring to my post on sexuality and dating in ancient Greece but to the first post that started this thread. I think to begin we should keep it on the mainland meaning whole of Hellas without the islands in the time period of the classical era. Is that okay for everyone?
Bye

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2003 11:44 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Salvete Sokare et alii,

A shame this posting only catches my eye now.

Somewhere in one of your postings you made a remark on "modern influences" in films about antiquity. On one hand, this is inevitable. It's impossible to look at history without the eyes of a 21st century person and to involuntarily make modern interpretations. For example Mussolini's notorious fascist interpretation of Rome, or socialist interpretations with the Gracchi and the populares. These may be interesting but are in some way always wrong because the Romans themselves did not think of this.

Secondly, there is of course the 'hollywoodification' of history. Some things will be represented inhistorically or having a more modern façade to make things understandable. The use of English, even though it is fairly obvious, is already an example.

Now about sexual morals in antiquity. Most people unfamiliar with antiquity really have a warped image about this, and appear to think of the ancients as sexless, prudish intellectuals. While there was a certain "victorian" streak in some prominent Romans' character, sexual morals were fairly loose compared to most of our modern history. Throughout Hellas, for example, homosexual love between men (usually involving a young adolescent and and older men) was not seen as depraved. In Rome it was not abnormal for young men to have their first sexual experiences with prostitutes or older women, and older men could marry very young women without it being regarded as perverted or sick. On Greek vases and plates, depictions of gigantic penises or men enjoying a gang-bang with a weird animal are fairly frequent. Their mythology is much the same.

On the other hand, other things were very much taboo. Homosexual love between women, for example, was something not spoken of and not tolerated (in general Greeks had a disregard for a woman's abilities, which included sexual abilities, which is why some men preferred other men for relationships). In Rome incest was a similar taboo. I believe that it was forbidden to marry someone who was related to you in the 7th grade or less (over here in Belgium it's forbidden for relatives in the 2nd grade and less).

Valete!
Draco

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 12:40 am
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Salve Draco
That our time might influences our view of history is a fact. Some authors twist it to their belief like in the 19th century and 20th century by Robert Graves. His scholarship is unreliable and it is fact.
We know how Athenian women were treated like most Greek women were treated. If you made a movie and showed this. Well run for your lives because you will get the feminists after you for trying to be as historical correct as one can be. You will get sued for it: it is one of the reasons why we have movies like Amazons and Gladiators. I don't really approve of how they treated women in antiquity but it was part of their culture, their religious beliefs even. (Look at how Hera, Artemis, Athena, Aphrodite, Demeter and Hestia are depicted in mythology). Hera's jealousy was somewhat overdramatized. Artemis, Athena and Hestia are depicted like the virgin mary and where depicted nicer in mythology. Demeter followed her mother footsteps as mother earth. So she is depicted in a neutral kind of way. Aphrodite is somewhat the modern day woman. I think some might even say that she is depicted as a slut in mythology because of the freedom she has as the Goddess of Love.
But this was just mythologicaly speaking and it shows how women were perceived and thought to act. Mythology has the tendency to demonize powerfull women like Medea, Lamia, Medusa, etc...
Draco, am i reading this right, that bestiality wasn't a taboo in Rome and Greece? That incest was a taboo, i'm not surprised of. Only the Gods can do this out of necessity, i guess.
vale

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:27 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Salve Sokare,

Lol. Good point on the necessity bit.

I do think bestiality was 'taboo' in the sense that it was not considered a normal way of having sex, and I'm not really sure how it was perceived in Rome, where they were always a little stricter than in Greece. Since such acts were depicted on Greek vases and plates, I guess it was at least considered not taboo enough to not be depicted. If it was depicted, it means the Greeks acknowledged its existence and that they did not find it particulary offensive.

I would like to make a comment on Greek women. All writing we have from antiquity, with one or two exceptions such as Sappho, came from male hands. Naturally, they will not write that their wives tirannised them or that she had a great influence in their lives when it was not a common thing to admit it (in a predominantly macho society). However, in the course of history some Greek and Roman women have played important roles, be it always covertly. But I'm really not so sure all Greek women were poor creatures. It's a fact though, undeniable, that most of them were in some way or another.

Also, don't forget that in earlier Greek times, women had a stronger position. By many Minoan society is considered matriachal. And there are indications that the Mycenean culture also had more equality between men and women. If you look at the Ilias and the Odysseia, you'll see that women play a much bigger role and are treated as individuals, not as people dependent on a strong male figure. In fact in some of these relationships the woman is dominant, such as in the relationship between Paris and Helena, for example.

Vale bene!
Draco

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 11:03 pm
by Anonymous
Chairete sas,

my name Alexander Dionysis Hellenos. Fellow scholars intruduced me in the societas and I must say, in the romance of my love for Greece, I never thought I would appreciate the internet like this, it beïng so far away from our loved era esspecially when of all things the web seems to do the best attempt to enter the era we love and finally giving me the opportunity to meet souls that think alike. Anyway, not going to bore everyone any longer! I just thought it appropriate to introduce myself before I start interacting. So, may the gods be with you!

Hellenos

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 11:06 pm
by Anonymous
Post Scriptum; just so my gens wouldn't ban me on the first day :wink: my nomen is Dionysius

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 11:42 pm
by Gnaeus Dionysius Draco
Gn Dionysius Draco Invictus A Dionysio Hellenoi SPD

(can't write a iota subscriptum in this thing so just fantasise that the last "i" was a iota subs. okay ;))

Welcome to gens Dionysia in particular and the SVR in general. I hope you'll find it to your liking here. Gens Dionysia is still the largest in SVR :p.

Anyway, I've also been appointed your praeceptor so expect a mail from me sometime tomorrow.

Kat'èrènèn,
Drakon

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 11:45 pm
by Anonymous
Chairete sas,

I've scroled through this discussion and I must say I too have great interest in trying to imagine beïng an "ancient Greek". I'll start of immidiatly by saying I have two remarks, if you'll alow the hospes. :wink:

firstly, I thought that people were rather openminded in sex. They had moral boundries but they were not handicaped by the narrowmindness we have from our catholic history. As I have read here too but mostly you stress what was not alloud, giving the impression that our society of today is more progressive and functional towards their "rules" on sexuality. Where I thaught it was the other way around. I have read quite a lot about it, when my Latin teacher accused the Greeks of aal beïng gay, which is rather bald (ongenuanceerd) to say. (Don't you hate it when sombody says "hij is de Griekse beginselen toegedaan" mening that a person lives up to the "first Greek principale"; beïng gay)

but it's probably to early to discuse that. secondly, to actually return to the main question (the project) I believe it would be convenient to start with just Athens because the documantation on Athens is extremely better preserved than that of outher sociëty's. For you know, the differences between poleis, as pointed out before are rather big. And that everybody who would like to participate in the project takes a certain topic (like education or hair and clothing) and that we would exchange drafts in a good structure and next we could comment each others drafts and eventually decide on how to throw everything together.

what do you think, because I hear this idea for a project has been presented 5 to 8 months ago!

Hellenos

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 12:03 am
by Quintus Aurelius Orcus
Khaire Hellenos

You made some good arguments about the sexuality of the Greeks. Any other questions might be good to answer them once the project has green light. Concerning the project, it was thought that everyone takes a city and describe a every day of a citizen of Sparta, Thebes, Athens, etc...
But it is not a bad idea. We could start with Athens by selecting each a citizen out of a social class (rich people, poor, farmers, etc...)

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 12:14 am
by Anonymous
Chaire Orcus,

I totally agree with you concerning the practical questions. But I think that if everybody takes a city and one person, we wouldn't get an as thorough look at his or her day and than we would not be able to cover als many people as there are in a sociëty, that meens no big detailed picture. If we bundled our efforts, we could not only look at one person but imagine the whole city live. What do you say?

Hellenos