Societas Via Romana - Discussion Archives

Salvete omnes,

How would everyone here like to help me with a little research project I'm doing? I have decided that an excellent way to trace trends throughout the Res Publica would be to trace the history of its prominent families. For instance, why did the Horatii feature so much in the early Res Publica, but spend the rest of their time (As a friend mockingly suggested) farming in Uzbekistan?

What is the earliest mention of the Marii? Where were the Vipsanii during the early Republic?

The militarily renowned Valerians seem to have been lost their reputation to the Cornelii Scipiones in the middle Republic, and new men at the end. Why? Why did the Metelli, previously fairly obscure, suddenly become so important at the end of the Republic? I think a chart tracking the fortunes of a certain family would make very interesting reading.

Is anyone interested in this idea?

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Salve Curio,

the problem with family trees is the fact that the resources are quite limited. The main source that most family tree researchers use are the books collected by the church in which all the names of the persons who got married and those who got bapthized (I don't know if I wrote it correctly) are written down.

But because the church started doing this somewhere in the middle ages, it is very difficult to go further back in time to trace your bloodlines. There is the odd book that might talk about this subject, but most sources are either gone or very rare to find (mostly kept in a safe or something like it).

I think I once heard about a population count register that had been retrieved, but I don't know where that was.

But if you could convince me with how you would like to do this, I would gladly help you because I'd like to know if there were any Dionysian Romans back then

Vale bene,

Tiberius Dionysius Draco

Salve Tiberi,

I'm not suggesting conventional genealogical data, I'm considering the idea of tracing the history of a family. To use a simple example, we could know that the political career of the Marii lasted only 2 generations, through the great Gaius Marius and his son. However, who was the last mentioned Horatius in ancient sources? The last Valerius? (Of the Republic) And so forth. I'm suggesting using the ancient sources to compile, effectively, a history of a certain family.

I don't know aboutthe Dionysians, but I know that the Scribonii stretch back past the Curio who was killed in Africa by Juba, although how far would be something I'd like to find out.

So, what do you think? An interesting project, perhaps?

Bene vale,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Salve Curio,

ah, I got the wrong idea about your project back there, sorry.

And which family did you have in mind? It might be best to start with a family where we know a lot about, not?

Vale bene,

Tiberius Dionysius Draco

Salve,

Well, I hadn't thought that far ahead.

Hmm, it should probably be a family that were prominent during the late Republic rather than the early, because we'll have more sources. Shall we start with the Metelli? They're interesting because of the way they came onto the political scene so rapidly after being obscure for so long.

Bene vale,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Salve Curio,

hmm, to tell you the truth I've never heard of them before. But I'll do a quick search on the internet and let you know if I find anything interesting.

If anybody else wants to participate in this project, they're welcome!

Vale bene

Tiberius Dionysius Draco

Salve,

Really? Metellus Numidicus, great enemy of Marius? Metellus Pius, the general who propped Pompey up in Spain? And various other Metelli, such as Celer, Scipio Nasica, etc. I'll start looking also, and perhaps we'll be able to construct a family tree of sorts.

Bene vale,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Metellus? Are we talking about Q Caecilius Metellus Celer, Clodia's husband? :p

I do like your idea Curio! Only I'm not much of a genealogist and, from the top of my head, know very little about the history of gentes. I do know that gentes such as Claudia and Iulia were very old, and that Tullia had Etruscan roots (Cicero prided himself on this). Gentes were also linked to political sympathies.

Vale!
Draco

Salve Scriboni

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:H For instance, why did the Horatii feature so much in the early Res Publica, but spend the rest of their time (As a friend mockingly suggested) farming in Uzbekistan?

WHAT??? You are talking about my actual ancestors, as some were Orazio, and Abruzzia is not a Roman Uzbekistan.

I was recently reading about Hortensia, daughter of the famed orator and a legal defense counsel renowned in her own right. It was interesting to whom all she was related, the Metelli among them, so I will dig into that a little more for you.

Vale
Moravious Horatianus Piscinus

Salvete omnes,

Draco: Celer? Certainly! All the Caecili Metelli we can get. And indeed, any other families you have an interest in.

Mari: You've got the idea! With some info on any that we know anything about, of course. Could you dig out your notes?

Piscine: I do most humbly apologise for insulting your ancestors, and beg forgiveness. Yes, I would be very interested to hear about a female defense counsel, since I hadn't realised any existed at that time. And Piscine; have you changed your name as well? Horatianus? Last I heard, you were still Horatius.

If everyone here is agreeable, I'll compile everything we have into a computer-friendly format, and then we can have it posted on the website as an interesting research tool that could be added to as we researched more gentes and familia. **Curio waits expectantly for his latin to be corrected now that Draco has joined the conversation.** :-p

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

Marcus Scribonius Curio wrote:**Curio waits expectantly for his latin to be corrected now that Draco has joined the conversation.** :-p

The plural of "familia" is "familiae".



Draco

**Curio considers that perhaps Draco's expert latin censorship is in fact a form of oppression that is being used by the Dionysian Empire. Realising the folly of thinking in a public forum, he hurries out.**

Chaírete gráµµatoi,

I cannot participate in this project, for I am in over my head at the Collegium Greacum, especially now beïng rector. But I would like to contribute to this discussion, not that I pretend to be someone important, but I am a former old history student (and maybe later former too ) filology student. Now for the bit that might be interesting ...

About the sources ...

Tiberius Dionysius Draco wrote:the problem with family trees is the fact that the resources are quite limited. The main source that most family tree researchers use are the books collected by the church in which all the names of the persons who got married and those who got bapthized (I don't know if I wrote it correctly) are written down.

do you think this quoting is nice (en ni viserend - pardon my Dutch) Tiberi?

Anyway, from the top of my -for two years now wandering around universities- head. I think of family archives (very recoursefull!) encyclopedias (Realencyclopedie has more ties than you'ld like!), ... and I could go on so until I have my own personal Hermeunetic book. But I think that ain't necessairy, most of it would be allready researched.

hope to be helpful,

Héllenos

hail to the preview!

Salvete Romani,

I've found a very interesting link about Metellus on the internet, here it is:

http://www.bartleby.com/65/me/Metellus.html

It gives a lot of information about the whole family, which is perfect for this project, nonne?

And Hellenos, I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. Could explain to me what you what you wanted to say/ask?

Valete bene

nevermind

Salvete omnes,

I'll try and post something from what we've got in the next few days. Many thanks for all your contributions!

Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.

Salvete,

While studying for the Latin exam of tomorrow I came across this Metellus Numidicus in one of Cicero's letters. Concerning the trial of the famous "Bona Dea" scandal against Publius Clodius, Cicero writes about his own testimony:

"Quae mihi res multo honorificentior visa est quam aut illa, cum iurare tui cives Xenocratem testimonium dicentem prohibuerunt, aut cum tabulas Metelli Numidici, cum eae, ut mos est, circumferrentur, nostri iudices inspicere noluerunt; multo haec, inquam nostra res est maior"

"And this case seems much more honorable to me than that one, in which your fellow citizens prohibited Xenocrates from swearing to the testimony he made, or when our judges refused to look into the book-keeping of Metellus Numidicus, when they were carried around, as was usual; this case of ours, I say, is much bigger."

This Metellus Numidicus had been charged with fraud, but thanks to his reputation (He almost defeated Jugurtha, the Numidian, hence the "Numidicus"), he wasn't convicted for anything.

As for the "your fellow citizens", this letter was sent to Atticus, a close friend of Cicero, so the "fellow citizens" refers to the Athenians.

Valete bene
Lupus

ps: I dare the Latin Inquisition to find anything wrong in there !