Ideas for a better SVR.

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Ideas for a better SVR.

Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:42 am

Salvete sodales.

Do you have any ideas to improve SVR as an organisation? Things that bother you about the structure? Issues you have with how we work? Post your ideas and grievances here.

Valete,
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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:41 am

Salve Draco,

Everything seems to be running quite smoothly imo. Luckily, on this internet forum, we are not susceptible to most of the annoying problems the ancient Romans had in their cities : dirty streets, the noise of passing carts at night, pickpocketing on the forum ... :wink:

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:34 am

I rather miss being awakened by horse drawn carts as their vendors would cry out to people to bring their rags, or would tell us what wares they were selling. The cry of "Watermelon" played to the clip-clop of the horse's hooves against the pavement is one of my fond childhood memories. Anyway, as our aediles are at redesigning the website, it might be interesting to investigate giving our pages some sound. A little music, or maybe Draco reciting Virgil so the rest of us know how the Latin Inquisition wishes us to properly pronounce our names.

Valete
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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:02 am

Salvete,

M Moravi Horati Piscine wrote:Anyway, as our aediles are at redesigning the website, it might be interesting to investigate giving our pages some sound. A little music, or maybe Draco reciting Virgil so the rest of us know how the Latin Inquisition wishes us to properly pronounce our names.


I have already designed a picture for the Latin Inquisition homepage you suggest :


Image


:lol:


Valete,

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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Fri Apr 09, 2004 11:28 am

Salvete!

Hmm, I like it better with the original face 8).

Anyhow, sound fragments is a good idea, especially for collegium Latinum. But it might also be done for collegium Graecum.

Valete!
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:29 pm

Salvete

Red is definitely not the Big Kahuna's colour. Brings out his bloodshot eyes, from pouring over Latin, and his sotten nose, from drowning his sorrow in wine over others' Latin errors.

I was thinking more in terms of adding music. Which would then lead to our discussing what kind of music might be appropriate. A snippet from Respighi's Fountains of Rome might play as you first open the main page, and each collegium might come up with its own "sound". Recitation of a greeting in Latin, and Greek, or of some poetry, is another idea. Hearing the news in Latin on the Finnish station is always a pleasure, and that on Radio Bremen, well, in Latin but the pronunciation sometimes makes it sound German. What kind of files to use would probably set limits on what would be available, but I think it is something to explore.

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Sound (Off)

Postby Aldus Marius on Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:06 am

Salvete omnes (and better late than never?),

I like the idea of background music, but...we must leave the visitor the option of whether or not to have music--and the default should be 'Sound: Off'. For this reason: Many people will be visiting us from work, or from other places and circumstances where their 'Net-surfing proclivities beg not to be noticed. (Way late at night after the offspring are finally asleep, pro exemplo.) A sudden burst of Respighi where one was not expected can earn a desk-jockey a quick meeting with Middle Management, and a slightly longer one at the employment office...

On more substantive issues, I think we need to take another good look at the Regula and reorganize it. The Collegiae, for instance, are described as the heart of what the Societas is all about...yet they do not appear in the Regula until Article VIII, darn near the end.

We should eliminate provisions that have proven irrelevant or that are little else but holdovers from the circumstances of our creation. A past example that we got rid of was the 'Senatusconsultum Ultimum'; what on earth were we ever going to do with such a thing? I'm glad it's gone. An example that remains is the section about gentes and familiae. I've said it better elsewhere, but what relevance do these concepts have to what is essentially an educational institution?

And the whole thing would possess more 'clarity, simplicity, and accessibility' if there were a Table of Contents at the very beginning, with anchor-links to each Article.

Finally, nobody's made a topic for this yet, but...I'd like to see the Collegiae put back the way they were, the way they still are on the Web site. I'm not sure if we were supposed to vote on the 'beta' organization in the summer elections (Rectors) or the winter ones (Magistrates), but we need to discuss this.

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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:52 pm

Salvete Mari et sodales omnes

I think that we should forgo amending the Regula and instead consider rewriting it entirely. We have been around for four years. By now we should understand what we really are and thus what kind of organizational structure would suit us best. Essentialy we are a sodalitas and our structure should reflect this.

In order to function we do not need as many officers as we have. We certainly do not need officers whose duties are not clearly defined. Annual elections are more of a bother than serve any purpose. I would like to see us go back to making the collegia central to our organizational structure and define clearly what duties the rectores will have in each of their collegia. I do not think they should be elected annually. From among the rectores two may be chosen as curiones. A major problem for SVR has been to find and keep someone to act as our webmaster, and this has only been complicated by making that be an annually elected position. The rectores could simply appoint a qualified person to that position, replacing him or her as needed. Another problem has been the burden of the duties of censores placed on two individuals, where the rectores might act together and share those responsibilities.

Another area to consider is that of the Comitia. We have not given the Comitia an important role in SVR. We have instead isolated the Senate from the sodales. I think we could depart from having a separate Senate. Let the sodales assembled in the Comitia act as the Senate, advising the rectores where needed, and thereby have SVR better reflect its membership.

Make it a simple structure with simple rules and we won't need an index at the beginning of a complicated Regula.

Valete optime
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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:00 pm

Salve Mari et Piscine,

I agree with both of you.

What I think is also a central problem to SVR is not, what we have considered in the past so often, how we define ourselves but rather what we DO. I was struck by this when I read an interview with a writer about the European Union. He said that the EU's aims, effectiveness and scope were crippled by endless discussions about what it really is. I think that SVR may suffer from the very same. Each year we amend or rewrite the Regulae, but our problems (very slow influx of new members, not enough people that really do or organise things, people that leave or go inactive inexplicably) continue to be the same.

Then again, it has proven all to difficult to actually DO things. Scerio's essay contest has a maximum of five contestants (and will have less when I drop out), and generally contests or activities here have generated no more than six or seven participants (with the exception of the ludi circenses, but they didn't have renewable subscriptions and the participants didn't have to DO anything). I accept that SVR is small and will perhaps never mobilise dozens of people to work on the same thing - that is ok. But half of our attempted activities that depend on the active participation of the membership teeters on the edge of failure and viability.

I'm not asking that you, Mari or Pisce, present SVR with a wondrous solution to these problems. I think that both of you (and other people like Cleopatra, Scerio, Orcus...) have been great and continuous assets to our community and are one of the reasons this place still exists. A "solution" to these problems can only come if we could get ten or more people together in a coordinated effort. But that takes time, dedication and vision of ALL involved.

In keeping with what I will say in a soon-to-be-posted topic, I'd like to make known that I will cooperate with plans you may have to simplify and rearrange SVR, but that I don't intend to play a dominant or inspiring role in this.

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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:39 pm

Salve Draco
I think that SVR may suffer from the very same. Each year we amend or rewrite the Regulae, but our problems (very slow influx of new members, not enough people that really do or organise things, people that leave or go inactive inexplicably) continue to be the same.


Perhaps what we need are no more annual elections. Perhaps elections every 2-3 years or 4 years? It could give us the opportunity to do the work we wanted to do in the first place. Annual elections seemed to be not very productive. Most people already hate elections, so to do it here also every year, twice, would be to much for some perhaps. I don't know, but I think we need to make some radical changes and go back.
If we can't find anyone to take the post as rogator, we could scrap it all together and do it like in the real world where people are called upon to count the votes during the election day. Perhaps we can do a similar thing. Either we can call upon people and ask if they want to count the votes for the duration of the elections or we appoint people to do so?
In keeping with what I will say in a soon-to-be-posted topic, I'd like to make known that I will cooperate with plans you may have to simplify and rearrange SVR, but that I don't intend to play a dominant or inspiring role in this

I'm all for to simplify and rearrange SVR. But I do hope you would play a part in it, which part is totally up to you.
vale

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Postby Cleopatra Aelia on Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:07 pm

Salvete Omnes,

Though I'm more or less a newbie to the SVR and its forum since I joined it only in January of this year I feel of course very honored that Draco considers me as an active member. So far my activity is limited to post on the forum and having contributed an essay for the essay contest. I really enjoyed it so far because like Coruncanius already said it I too was excited when I came across the SVR because here I met other people interested in Ancient Rome and that it is possible to discuss matters about this topic here in an open manner.

When I looked at the regulae it looked very complicated for me and I wondered if this is really necessary in such a detail for an internet society. It looks like the government of a virtual Rome or a Roman colonia. If you want it like that, then it's fine with me, too. I surely agree that a forum needs a moderator/s in case some one write humiliating things and also a control of who's signing up because I noticed too, that there are very often nonsense names on it of persons who don't contribute anything to the SVR. So we definitely need someone who's entitled to erase those names or contacts members who humiliate others.

Draco, I could understand if one reason of resigning is that you are too busy with your studies. But I do hope that you will still remain with the SVR as you became the heart of it to me (next to Marius of course :lol: ), mostly because we also keep up private correspondence by e-mail (to practise your German :wink: ). If I could be more active in any other way just let me know, I at the moment don't know what I could do to improve SVR.
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Now hold it *right* there.

Postby Aldus Marius on Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:24 am

Salvete omnes...

I read our esteemed Draco's two statements a couple of days ago and have been contemplating my response. His words are both sensible and sad; we shall continue to enjoy the blessings of his company, though I for one can regret that he, like so many talented others in so many places, has fallen victim to that most common organizational ailment, the expectation of too much work out of too few people. This does not mean that SVR is a failed organization; it only means that SVR is an organization. This thing happens.

Friend Draco is not leaving us, nor is he suffering burnout. The expressions of dismay and regret, the pleas for him to reconsider, may be touching--but I have to ask: Shouldn't a community just past its fourth birthday be able to weather this change without being crippled by it? Our other Founder broke ranks with us very early on, and we did fine. In a healthy organization, there are no Indispensible Men. And I submit to you, Sodales, that we are a healthy organization...no matter the cries of Gloom and Doom from certain, rather unexpected quarters.

Now, about those cries...

Consul Coruncanius (he said in English): You have demonstrated that you possess very little faith in your constituents. You wander onto a topic called "Ideas for a Better SVR"--a topic begun by the Great Man Himself (<g> to Draco!)--read the assorted rumblings there, the input Draco solicited by the act of establishing the thread...and the best you can make out of it is that we're "closing ranks", forming a "division", "calling for a new version of SVR", "eras[ing] the board", and, oh yes--"giving up".

That's like poking your nose into a kitchen and being dismayed to find there's a chef in there, cooking. This is the Comitia. We're supposed to talk about this sort of thing here.

(As if we can't have a quiet discussion about the SVR...or the OP...or much of anything without wanting to throw the whole concept of this group into the incinerator. As if any departure from the Founding or from what you yourself have done constitutes buying into some kind of separatist movement, or an OP merger, or going back to the drawing-board. I urge him to read my proposals again. There is not a drawing-board in sight.)

I will ignore, for now, the great personal insult dealt me by this man who has read alarming things in the Comitia, engaging things everywhere else, and cannot seem to understand that the same perfectly good Romanus may be moved to write a bit of both. I will cast my pebble against the handing-out of longer terms of office to the likes of him.

We do not need to expand the Administration. I'm not getting much use out of the one we've got. I offered to donate a big chunk of my writings, what was it, a month ago? --two?, and I asked how to go about it. Nobody official has gotten back to me. And this is a matter that would be handled by a fairly low-ranking Magistrate, an Aedilis, perhaps.

My name-change was handled thoughtfully, enjoyably, and well, for which I thank the Censores' office and everyone else who had a hand in it. I also got some good help from the Aediles about my login difficulties earlier this year.

But, other'n that, what government have I had this year...?
-- Has the Senate not met in several months? --Because I have seen only one Senate Report since the law authorizing them was passed.
-- When are the Rector elections? (I'd been wondering if this was when we were going to vote on the Collegia reshuffling.)
-- Is anyone going to take delivery of my story?
-- and a senior Magistrate who evidently has less faith in the intelligence, dedication, and rationality of the average Sodalis than I do in "pyramid power" and the boogie-man.

"Closing ranks"? (On what Standard?)
"New version"? (More like Copy-and-Paste)
"Strike or walkout"?? "Giving UP"?!

How.

Dare.

He.


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Postby Gnaeus Dionysius Draco on Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:11 am

Salve Coruncani et salvete alii,

I'm glad that someone else here says what I've been saying with more words and less effectivess:

What I didn't realize was that most of active members would basically walk off and all but refuse to participate. The Praetors, both very intelligent and learned are occupied with their studies. The Censors are simply put, absent. My Aediles are either unaccounted for or unable to access the site. Most of the Rectors never show up. To put it another way, I have no quorum. My own, personal thought is to tell you all to just deal with deal with it. Sometimes things you don't like happen. But in a way you already are dealing with it. By distancing yourselves, this has all but become a strike or a walk-out designed to shut down activity in SVR. It is basically clear to me now that to the members, those members whose opinions count anyway, SVR is not serving their intended purposes.


The only difference, mi Coruncani, is that I don't think for a moment that this crisis of passivity, or more, a breakdown, was "designed". It has more become a natural consequence of what is going on.

If you feel I have abandoned you as a person and accelerated your own doubts and sudden decisions, or if I have abandonened SVR as a whole, perhaps precipitated its collapse or radical reset, that may be true. But when it comes down to organising, planning, bringing forward ideas, gathering people... I've long had a growing feeling of being abandoned myself, within SVR's inner circles. And that is described well by your quote. Although I've only been consul once, your description could partially match any given year of SVR's Senate beyond the second.

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The Original Vision

Postby Aldus Marius on Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:52 am

Salvete omnes...

Below is a document that was as much a part of SVR's coming into being as anything in the Regula. I wrote it while I was still in the OP (as most of us were at the time), and posted it first to a little List called [Romanitas], of which I believe all the Founders were members. I give you the article complete, along with the intro attached to it when I reposted it to the old [SVR] List, and a comment by Horatius Piscinus afterwards.

With the recent discussion of 'rebooting' the Societas, I thought we could use this reminder of what, at heart, we are about.



Fwd: A New Foundation...? Marius the Wanderer

Dec 19, 2001 18:13 PST

Avete iterum, amici...

The founding Members have seen this before; the newer folks might want to. Quite a bit of it was actually incorporated into the Regula and other aspects of the Society's structure. But this is the message that started it all...the thinking, hoping, envisioning and debate that became the Societas Via Romana. My thanks especially to Silvanius Florus, Scorpio Invictus, Atticus and Horatius for doing what I could not and making the idea a reality.



--- Marius Peregrine <marius_p-@yahoo.com>; wrote:

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 18:24:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marius Peregrine <marius_p-@yahoo.com>;
Subject: A New Foundation...?

Avete amici...

As promised, here is the 'talking paper' I did up for a group of friends who, like me, were disappointed in NovaRoma and wanted to see something different. Questions, comments, emoticons all welcome!

-- Mari Pere'


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

We are all united by a deeply-felt sense of Roman-ness--not a political posture, but a personal, even spiritual identity that defines and explains everything else about us. Some of us have only just discovered this core of our being; others have been walking the Via Romana for many years. One and all, though, we came to NovaRoma in the belief that we would find companionship on our journey, and an outlet of expression for the Roman within.

One and all, we have been disappointed...and in a matter so crucial, the disappointment runs deep. But we are Romans; we endure. Now we will fashion our own place.

I've been in deep thought over this matter for several days. Not being the leadership type (I'm a darn good beta-wolf!), I can't call what I've come up with a 'proposal' exactly; it's nowhere near so complete. But it might not make a bad set of talking-points, a foundation if you will. Here it is...

< - - - - - - [ MEDITATIONS OF MARIUS PEREGRINE ] - - - - - - >


I. NovaRoma got it backwards: We need to build a community and a society first,
and once that is firmly established, then (maybe) we can worry about a
government. (Extremely optional until we get to a certain [large] size.)

- 1. Community first: We are all Romans. That single thing in common should
always be kept foremost in our thinking, and should be enough to outweigh any
number of differences in interpretation of what being a Roman means.

-- a. Acceptance: Romans are not so common in this world that we can afford to
waste them by wearing them down, shutting them up, or frustrating them beyond their
capacity to bear grief. Let us make up our minds to be as accepting, even welcoming,
of different takes on Romanitas as we can, for the Roman with the oddball viewpoint
just might have something to teach us.

-- b. Mentoring: None of us were raised as Romans. It was something we
each discovered, something we all had to learn (and are learning still). Now that we've
found each other, perhaps we can learn from each other...? Let us feel free to ask any
member, anytime, about anything Roman-related. Let us feel free to advise each
other (again, in a spirit of acceptance and wishing to improve the overall authenticity of
the society). Let us feel free to either accept or reject that advice, modify it to suit us,
or table it for further consideration, without that decision being regarded as a sign of
personal animosity.

In the course of this ongoing dialogue, we will very soon sort out who is an expert
at what. I think most of us know we can go to Ericius for Religio and Etruscan questions,
to Piscinus for Religio and Plebeian history, to Formosanus for Latin, or to Mari Pere' [blushes]
for cultural and military stuff. Perhaps, when we are a certain size, we may wish to have
collegiae (I hate the word 'sodalitas'), each headed by one knowledgeable in
that particular aspect of Roman life. In the beginning these would be study colloquia;
but eventually I'd like to see, say, the literature folks composing original works in Latin, the
dyers-and-weavers guild producing Roman clothing, the gamers' guild putting on demos
of Roman board and ball games at conventions and Faires. Newbies would be accepted
into the collegium of their choice and taught what we know about the craft. Nothing
would prevent an expert in one subject from joining a different collegium and
learning another, either; there could be something like a 'certification program', or
when we're really established, an actual series of degrees.

I see these collegiae and their activities, teaching by text and example how
to live the Roman Way, as the core of any new Roman society.

- 2. Government, if ever?: I think our needs for a new Roman society can be
adequately (even superbly) met without ever raising the question of sovereignty.
I am not, therefore, in favor of starting a new micronation. Such government
as we may have, if and when we decide we need one, should only be that which is
sufficient to run a largish educational non-profit. If we wish to make it more Roman,
we can use the titles that would have been appropriate for a town in the Provinces;
these had their city councilmen, a local Senate and so on. But that's a long way down
the road.

On the regional and sub-regional level, however, we might have to do something fairly
early on. You see, we will have our online community, yes...but at the same time, I
hope to see a host of little Roman 'cell movements' spring up in the places where
our Cives spend their daily lives. Romanitas is catching, and it may be within a
year or two each of us will have our 'circle' of other Romans-in-spirit whom we
meet with during the week, on weekends, or for events. There should be some means
of recognizing these 'circles' and granting them a kind of status within our society.
These will also be the welcoming-point for new Citizens (if we call them that). I'm
thinking SCA here.


II. We should remain open to anyone, Nova Roman or not, who demonstrates
the signal characteristic of deep inner Romanitas. These people are not being
adequately served by NovaRoma.

- a. Intake: If we ever put out an application form, for my money it could consist
of one essay question: "When and how did you first discover that you were a Roman?"
This should separate the actual Romans from the simply Roman enthusiasts.
There are plenty of venues for the latter. Perhaps we could also ask "What does
Romanitas mean to you?", to weed out power-crazed Caesar wannabees
and anybody who can't write except with a can of spray paint. (We Romans are a
literate people.)

- b. Latinitas: I do not understand a man like Sulla who can boast to a
Listful of Romans that he still has no Latin after three years. Nor do I understand
any Listful of 'Romans' that would let him get away with it. I would expect anyone who
really feels himself to be a Roman at heart would want to learn Latin as soon as
practicable, and then teach it to his friends so he'd have someone to rap with. Indeed,
these Latin seminars could be the catalyst for the creation of new 'circles' (whatever we
end up calling them). One doesn't have to run out and get a master's degree post-
haste; I probably know only about two semesters' worth of Latin, but I share it liberally
with the neighbors! Being self-taught is also a wonderful way to demonstrate the
Disciplina that was such an integral part of the Roman character. I would venture
to suggest that a Citizen be strongly encouraged (required?) to be at least phrase-
book proficient in Latin by the beginning of his second year with us (of course, we'll be
helping!). Failure to have at least made a beginning here would seem to indicate a lack
of seriousness (or, alternately, a year when one's life has gone to hell).


III. We will be attempting to recreate the best of Ancient Rome. Sound familiar?
But we mean it: Republic and Empire, Rome and the Provinces, all
Rome's peoples, Her languages, Her cultures, and each culture's unique contributions to
and adaptations of Romanitas. I care not where or when in Rome's 1200 years an
idea comes from, if it is a good idea we will adopt it until a better one comes along!
No more of this treating the Imperial era like a red-headed stepchild, something to
hold at arms' length and be ashamed of. And we will not subscribe to the delusion that
the politics in the capital is the sum of all Roman character, activity and achievement.


IV. I was, once upon a time, going to try to found something like this...its
ultimate form would have been a Roman living-history community, open year-round
for anyone who wanted to discover Roman life by living it for a semester or two.
There would have been a library and museum, a theater for putting on classical
plays, a reconstructed Legionary fortress, a restaurant serving real Roman
food...but most of all, an on-site, permanent Roman community going about their
daily lives. I'd even found the land for it: seven hills near a bend in the Red River...
and I was going to call it Septimontium.

I do not know if the current project ever will or will ever want to end up like that.
But I thought I would offer up the name, at least, since we seem to be looking for
one: Shall we call it Septimontium...?

< - - - - - - - [ END OF PEREGRINE'S PROPOSAL ] - - - - - - - >


.
.
.

Please, amici, don't just stare at it and go 'Wow!' Questions, comments, and constructive criticism all are welcome. >({|:-)



In amicitia et fides,

=====
Marius Peregrine, Storyteller and |\=/| Citizen of Rome
<marius_peregrine@yahoo.com> ( ~ 6 )~~~----...,,__
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RE: A New Foundation...? Marcus Horatius

Dec 20, 2001 03:53 PST

Salvete mi amici et amicae

Gratias, Mario

Marius the Wanderer wrote:


the message that started it all...the thinking, hoping, envisioning
and debate that became the Sovietas Via Romana.


Every member of SVR, and every curious visitor who may be considering
joining, should take a look at how we began. We do not need reminding
of what we left behind, but we do need to reflect on what we hoped to
achieve and continually look towards building a place we can all share
in.

Valete et habete bonam fortunam
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Postby Horatius Piscinus on Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:54 pm

Salvete sodales omnes

Marius Peregrine wrote:

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

We are all united by a deeply-felt sense of Romanness--not a political posture, but a personal, even spiritual identity that defines and explains everything else about us.



Before there ever was an SVR, a group of us proposed that any new societas we might wish to form or join would have to be one based on the simple principle that community comes first. What has always marked SVR as distinct from other internet groups is our community. Coruncanius, Tergestus, and Cleopatra have all commented on what attracted them to join SVR was that we are community in which to discuss our shared interest in Romanitas in an open and free forum. They referred to the amiable community that all sodales of our societas have built up over these past years.

The Conditores came from the original group that first inspired SVR. They provided us with a place on the internet in which to meet, a formal structure by which to organize the societas. Marius and I were not Conditors of SVR, but as members of the original group that inspired it, early on we were asked to join. The same is true for Curio, Ericius, and others in our forum. Over the past few years others have come into SVR, not from the original group or Conditores, but who have added valuable contributions and, most importantly, further developed our sense of community. Cleopatra, although you are one of our newer 'active' members, you are no less important to all of us in forming and preserving our community. The same is true of all sodales of SVR. Regardless of when you joined, we are all part of the same community.

Whatever the reasons, it appears that the organizational structure of SVR has now collapsed. IMHO that organizational structure was rather artificial to begin with. It never really defined what SVR is. For some of us who have involved ourselves in the organizational aspects of SVR, at times it seemed the structure posed in our Regula more often than not got in the way of continuing SVR. There was, for example, always a problem of finding enough people to fill all the offices provided for in the Regula. The Regula was amended to cut back on the number of offices needed to be filled. An attempt was made to cut back on the number of collegia, and the number of officers in each collegium, just so we could find enough people to fill offices. Well, filling offices does not mean we found people who had the time to fulfill their duties of office. Through it all, with all the problems we had with SVR's organizational structure and trying to preserve it, SVR's community and its sense of community has continued to grow.

For most of us here it is that community that is most important, it is what we most desire to preserve. The Regula, the organizational structure it posed, was only a minor distraction. Now that organizational structure has collapsed. The reason, as Coruncanius and Scorpio have pointed out, is a general lack of interest and indifference towards the organizational structure. Losing the Regula and all it poses imo therefore is no great matter. It was artificial and its loss is only an artificial crisis. Its loss poses now an opportunity for our community. I therefore put it to you, all sodales of the Societas Via Romana:


Is it your wish and desire, sodales omnes assembled together in Comitia, to form a Consilium and to give the Concilium authority to write a new Regula for the Societas Via Romana, incorporating into it the ideals of our community and establishing an organizational structure by which to manage SVR's further development?

Whatever you may decide, I pray to the Gods that it may be good, prosperous and happy for the Societas Via Romana and all its members.

Valete optime
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Postby Curio Agelastus on Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:28 pm

Perhaps a poll should be posted to answer your question, Piscine?

That said, before we answer said question, something needs to be clarified. *WHAT do you want SVR to be?* Only once we know that can we decide whether it needs a formal Regula or government.
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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:54 pm

Salvete omnes,

Here are a few ideas for a new SVR regula. I propose a radically democratic and rather minimal administration.

*Cut back magistracies, but keep the basics : 1 censor, 1 consul, 1 aedilis, 2 rogatores.
*Remove the senate, the praetores, the magister morum and the quaestores.
*Organise elections once every two years.
*The role of the removed instances and the veto-right against the magistratus sine collega to be transfered to the Comitia.
*Remove familiae, gentes and provincia.
*Keep the collegia as they are now (four in number), each with 1 rector elected for two years, at the same time as the magistrates. A magistracy and a rectorship can be combined.

Feel free to comment on these few musings !
Tomorrow, I will post a few comments about what I consider the goals and purposes of a future SVR.

Valete,
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OK, I'll bite.

Postby Aldus Marius on Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:35 am

Salve, mi Attice...

OK, I'll bite. Here are some Musings on your Comments.


*Cut back magistracies, but keep the basics : 1 censor, 1 consul, 1
aedilis, 2 rogatores.

Looks good, except the Aediles. Very little happens here without the Internet presence, nonne...? Maintaining the Site and the Board is the most important and 'impactful' thing any Magistrate can do here. I think we should keep the two Aediles; indeed, I'd field four of 'em if we could find 'em.


*Remove the senate, the praetores, the magister morum and the quaestores.

We have a Magister Morum...? *eyes twinkle; cheeks go round with the possibilities*

Na, I hope s/he's been as bored as the Maytag repairman. I will notify the Censor if I am planning to become significantly less well-behaved! >({|;-)


*Organise elections once every two years.

I like it; we need stability, especially on the Rectorial side of the house. Any really ambitious project is going to need time to get airborne.


*The role of the removed instances and the veto-right against the magistratus sine collega to be transfered to the Comitia.

Ah. So *that's* what we do without a Senate. Hmm...


*Remove familiae, gentes and provincia.

Familiae and gentes need to go; I've been saying so for years. But I think a role could be found for Provinciae; granted, we have only one at present, but as the numbers and geographical spread of our members increase, we may need to form Provinciae in other places. This always was something for us to grow into. An educational institution can have satellite campuses; I see our Provinces as being something like that, or like associated school districts.


*Keep the collegia as they are now (four in number), each with 1 rector elected for two years, at the same time as the magistrates. A magistracy and a rectorship can be combined.

I would like, as a minimum, to see the Collegium Philosophicum stand on its own two feet again; it looks a little awkward where it is, all jumbled together with Arts and Sciences. If it must have a roommate, could we pair it with the Collegium Religionis? --These two at least have the common feature that they are there to help us Think Large Thoughts.

I would also like to see the Collegium Vitae Quotidianae reestablished. (I will even stand for the Rectorship.) We need much more information about Roman daily life on this Board, and it doesn't really fit anywhere else.

This would give us five Collegia, if CollPhil moves in with CollRel instead of striking out on its own. Is this acceptable...?

I'll also take this opportunity to publicly rescind the Great Big Noisy Fuss I raised about consolidating the Collegium Militarium with the Historicum; the military topics there seem to be doing quite well. They are in capable hands!

Mea sententia...
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Postby Quintus Aurelius Orcus on Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:28 am

Salvete

Cut back magistracies, but keep the basics : 1 censor, 1 consul, 1 aedilis, 2 rogatores.

Well this isn't a bad idea with the exception of the Aedilles. We do need 2 Aedilles. We need to keep this site running and I doubt one would suffice in that matter. I do think that we need 2 consuls as well. If anyone in the near future accusses a consul for let's say malpractice, the other one can look in on it, to see if nothign went wrong.
*Remove the senate, the praetores, the magister morum and the quaestores.

I'm not sure that removing the senate and the praetores is a good thing. De Praetores are there to keep the peace and the senate is needed to make decisions. I say keep the senate and the praetores.
*Organise elections once every two years.

Not a bad idea. Although I was hoping for 4 years, but I suppose 2 would suffice. It would be enough time to follow through on plans and projects that need to be finished.
*The role of the removed instances and the veto-right against the magistratus sine collega to be transfered to the Comitia.

I'm not sure if this would be a good idea, but than again I don't quit get this one. Perhaps someone would be so kind to explain it to me.
*Remove familiae, gentes and provincia.

I think we should keep this as optional. If a group of people decides to form a familiae or a gente or a province, than they should be given the option to do so. We have seen in the past, that this didn't work with a number of people, but this does not mean it can't work. I think that this should be optional.
*Keep the collegia as they are now (four in number), each with 1 rector elected for two years, at the same time as the magistrates. A magistracy and a rectorship can be combined.

A good idea. Like Marius, I would like to see col philosophicum to stand on its two feet again. It seems like philosophy has not been discussed there anymore. Either we make sure it stands on its two feet again or we put it together with col. religionis, since the two do have alot in common.
valete

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Postby Quintus Pomponius Atticus on Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:45 pm

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:Well this isn't a bad idea with the exception of the Aedilles. We do need 2 Aedilles. We need to keep this site running and I doubt one would suffice in that matter. I do think that we need 2 consuls as well. If anyone in the near future accusses a consul for let's say malpractice, the other one can look in on it, to see if nothign went wrong.


Allow me to refine my suggestion. We could have 1 elected aedilis, who is in charge of the webpages of SVR, and an optional scriba appointed by him to do some delegated work.

The veto-right against consular decisions, I would - as I mentioned in my previous posting -transfer to the Comitia as a whole, where members could post an interpellation against a decision by a magistrate and ask to put it to a vote. This would make SVR more democratic, and it would take away the restriction that only one person, the other consul (who could be inactive, or refuse to defend the membership’s wish) can veto a decision of his colleague.

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:I'm not sure that removing the senate and the praetores is a good thing. De Praetores are there to keep the peace and the senate is needed to make decisions. I say keep the senate and the praetores.


Fortunately perhaps, SVR in its history has never known a conflict in which its praetores had to intervene. If this would arise in the future, I'm sure the Comitia can handle this by itself and, if really necessary, appoint an ad hoc ‘court’ presided by the consul and with the membership as a jury.

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:Not a bad idea. Although I was hoping for 4 years, but I suppose 2 would suffice. It would be enough time to follow through on plans and projects that need to be finished.


Four years in my opinion is too long. A lot can happen in four years that makes people in a purely voluntary internet organisation leave or neglect their function (we’ve seen this in the with 1-year terms already). If we would have elections only once in four years, I'm pretty sure we would have to organise intermediary elections for one or two posts almost every term.
I am even considering that it would not a bad thing to keep our annual elections, but then without the restriction that magistrates cannot be re-elected.

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:I'm not sure if this would be a good idea, but than again I don't quit get this one. Perhaps someone would be so kind to explain it to me.


I tried to explain what I mean by this above, with reference to the vetoing of consular decisions.

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:*Remove familiae, gentes and provincia.

I think we should keep this as optional. If a group of people decides to form a familiae or a gente or a province, than they should be given the option to do so. We have seen in the past, that this didn't work with a number of people, but this does not mean it can't work. I think that this should be optional.[/quote]

We could keep open the possibility, but after four years of SVR, I simply observe that nothing has happened with it.

Quintus Aurelius Orcus wrote:*Keep the collegia as they are now (four in number), each with 1 rector elected for two years, at the same time as the magistrates. A magistracy and a rectorship can be combined.

A good idea. Like Marius, I would like to see col philosophicum to stand on its two feet again. It seems like philosophy has not been discussed there anymore. Either we make sure it stands on its two feet again or we put it together with col. religionis, since the two do have alot in common.[/quote]

We could talk again about the composition of our collegia. Having philosophy apart from arts and sciences again is in a defensible idea. Nevertheless, I don’t think we should go back to the old system again with 8 collegia and as many rectores.
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